Comments on: My Life http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/ It's more wonderful than you can imagine! Tue, 15 May 2012 01:29:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: shelly http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-2/#comment-852 shelly Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:21:14 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-852 <i>All will eventually recognize Christ as Lord, but this does by no means indicate that they will be saved unto Heaven. “It is appointed to man once to die, but after this comes judgment.” What do you do with the accounts in Revelation, where whoever did not appear in the Lamb’s Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire forever? Where does “all men being saved” reconcile with “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels”? What about the words of our Lord, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” I certainly gave you enough other references clearly indicating a separation between saved and unsaved. And this separation is eternal.</i> In those passages (and a slew of others), "eternal" is a mistranslation of the Greek word "aionion"...which doesn't mean "eternal" at all! Look at that Greek word closely. Doesn't it look familiar to you? That's because that's the origin of the English word "eonian". An "eon" is a pre-determined period of time. I don't dispute there will be a separation between those who've accepted what Christ did on the cross (my own definition of "salvation") now and those who haven't. What I do dispute is the duration of it. I believe the separation is eonian, NOT eternal. Those who aren't converted (those still locked up in their stubborness (Romans 11:32)) will, during that eon, learn that God's ways are better; and, at the end of that eon, God will restore everyone and everything to himself. Remember the story of the Prodigal Son? After that son has squandered his entire inheritance and found himself reduced to living in a pig sty, he came to his senses and returned to his father, offering to become a hired servant (as he no longer deemed himself worthy to be called "son"). What did the father do? Throw a party! His son had come home! It didn't matter, ultimately, what that son had done; all that mattered was that he came home. Also, on the word fire: This isn't always a literal fire. Fire can also be symbolic. In many passages, fire represents consummation of sin and purification. In fact, one of the words mistranslated as hell--Gehenna--was a reference to an actual place! Gehenna, at the time, was a ravine in Israel where people burned their trash. (Presently, it's a garden. Ponder that one. ;)) http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/hellfire2.htm Let's also take John 10:10 into consideration: "The thief is not coming except that he should be stealing and sacrificing and destroying. I (Jesus = the Word = God incarnate) came that they (EVERYONE!) may have life eonian, and have it superabundantly." (Concordant Literal) If God is going to "destroy" all those who don't believe in him, then's he's no better than the thief (Satan/the Devil) himself! And who wants to believe in that sort of God? I don't! All God wants to destroy are the works of Satan himself. All will eventually recognize Christ as Lord, but this does by no means indicate that they will be saved unto Heaven. “It is appointed to man once to die, but after this comes judgment.” What do you do with the accounts in Revelation, where whoever did not appear in the Lamb’s Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire forever? Where does “all men being saved” reconcile with “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels”? What about the words of our Lord, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” I certainly gave you enough other references clearly indicating a separation between saved and unsaved. And this separation is eternal.

In those passages (and a slew of others), “eternal” is a mistranslation of the Greek word “aionion”…which doesn’t mean “eternal” at all! Look at that Greek word closely. Doesn’t it look familiar to you? That’s because that’s the origin of the English word “eonian”. An “eon” is a pre-determined period of time.

I don’t dispute there will be a separation between those who’ve accepted what Christ did on the cross (my own definition of “salvation”) now and those who haven’t. What I do dispute is the duration of it. I believe the separation is eonian, NOT eternal. Those who aren’t converted (those still locked up in their stubborness (Romans 11:32)) will, during that eon, learn that God’s ways are better; and, at the end of that eon, God will restore everyone and everything to himself.

Remember the story of the Prodigal Son? After that son has squandered his entire inheritance and found himself reduced to living in a pig sty, he came to his senses and returned to his father, offering to become a hired servant (as he no longer deemed himself worthy to be called “son”). What did the father do? Throw a party! His son had come home! It didn’t matter, ultimately, what that son had done; all that mattered was that he came home.

Also, on the word fire: This isn’t always a literal fire. Fire can also be symbolic. In many passages, fire represents consummation of sin and purification. In fact, one of the words mistranslated as hell–Gehenna–was a reference to an actual place! Gehenna, at the time, was a ravine in Israel where people burned their trash. (Presently, it’s a garden. Ponder that one. ;) )

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/hellfire2.htm

Let’s also take John 10:10 into consideration: “The thief is not coming except that he should be stealing and sacrificing and destroying. I (Jesus = the Word = God incarnate) came that they (EVERYONE!) may have life eonian, and have it superabundantly.” (Concordant Literal)

If God is going to “destroy” all those who don’t believe in him, then’s he’s no better than the thief (Satan/the Devil) himself! And who wants to believe in that sort of God? I don’t!

All God wants to destroy are the works of Satan himself.

]]> By: Don R http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-2/#comment-845 Don R Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:59:21 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-845 Jesus left us two injunctions: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. I'll go with those two and leave the doctrines and dogmas, rules and regulations to the clergy and to Dave. Jesus left us two injunctions: Love the Lord your God with all your heart
and your neighbor as yourself.
I’ll go with those two and leave the doctrines and dogmas, rules and regulations to the clergy and to Dave.

]]> By: Dan http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-2/#comment-844 Dan Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:54:28 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-844 God's love and mercy endures forever and there is nothing that can stop it.I thank God that Jesus Christ made that possible for ALL PEOPLE believers and unbelievers. Love in Christ Dan P.S. His love draws all men to Himself not one person will be left out. God’s love and mercy endures forever and there is nothing that can stop it.I thank God that Jesus Christ made that possible for ALL PEOPLE believers and unbelievers.
Love in Christ Dan
P.S. His love draws all men to Himself not one person will be left out.

]]> By: Bruce http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-2/#comment-840 Bruce Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:31:56 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-840 Also thought you might find this interesting... One of Lewis's lifelong friends was also Dom Bede Griffiths. Griffiths became an ecumenical Catholic priest, and ran a Christian ashram in India were he prayed and met with Buddhist monks and Hindu priests. Near the end of Lewis's life, Dom even got his longtime friend and fellow Christian, C.S.Lewis to admit in a letter: "Even more disturbing as you [Dom] say, is the ghastly record of Christian persecution. It had begun in Our Lord's time - `Ye know not what spirit ye are of' (John of all people!) I think we must fully face the fact that when Christianity does not make a man very much better, it makes him very much worse...Conversion may make of one who was, if no better, no worse than an animal, something like a devil." [C. S. Lewis in a letter to Bede Griffiths, dated Dec. 20, 1961, not long before Lewis' death, The Letters of C. S. Lewis, ed., W. H. Lewis, (New York: Harcourt, Brace & World, Inc., 1966), p. 301.] Also thought you might find this interesting…

One of Lewis’s lifelong friends was also Dom Bede Griffiths. Griffiths became an ecumenical Catholic priest, and ran a Christian ashram in India were he prayed and met with Buddhist monks and Hindu priests. Near the end of Lewis’s life, Dom even got his longtime friend and fellow Christian, C.S.Lewis to admit in a letter: “Even more disturbing as you [Dom] say, is the ghastly record of Christian persecution. It had begun in Our Lord’s time – `Ye know not what spirit ye are of’ (John of all people!) I think we must fully face the fact that when Christianity does not make a man very much better, it makes him very much worse…Conversion may make of one who was, if no better, no worse than an animal, something like a devil.” [C. S. Lewis in a letter to Bede Griffiths, dated Dec. 20, 1961, not long before Lewis' death, The Letters of C. S. Lewis, ed., W. H. Lewis, (New York: Harcourt, Brace & World, Inc., 1966), p. 301.]

]]> By: Bruced http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-2/#comment-839 Bruced Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:58:12 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-839 Faith is all that matters??? Yes, but WHOSE faith? If the requirement is for me to conjure up my own faith in a God who would just as soon send me to eternal punishment for not believing correctly, and then living my life in bondage to fear of not performing correctly... then I cannot have faith. But, if I understand that God is all-loving, all-inclusive, and all-forgiving, then I can rest in that, and find myself to be pulled into His faith... His faith in me, and I can marvel in the relationship He has made with me! The thing you call "sin" is a rebellous act. It is acting in ways that hurt me, and hurt other people. When I think that God only accepts me into relationship with Him because of something I do, I can never trust that relationship with assurance. If I must count on my own abilities to conjoin with my creator, I will always doubt that it is true. Why? Because I am a failure. Maybe you are not, and can trust your abilities to please God. I cannot. And without that assurance, hopelessness sets in. Self-destructiveness (sin) sets in. When my hope is only as sure as my own abilities, then reality tells me that I have no hope. Having no hope leads me to abandon interest in self, and in others. The only thing I can have assurance in, is that Christ redeemed me to the Father without my input, permission, or knowledge. But, gaining knowledge of that, put's my mind at ease, confident that Jesus paid the price for me, and that the Father has reached out to me in love and kindness. Knowing that sets me free to enjoy life with Him, and rest in His peace. That is so satisfying, and so fulfilling, and builds such hopefulness, that I find myself changing inside. I no longer desire the things of life which cause harm to myself and others. The appetites of power, lust, envy, etc. are fading away. I have nothing to do with it. I don't have to make myself obey, conform, or strive in any way. His love is changing my mind about life, and His peace is drawing me into a new place... a place of incredible contentment. This is a wonderful place to be! Faith is all that matters???

Yes, but WHOSE faith?

If the requirement is for me to conjure up my own faith in a God who would just as soon send me to eternal punishment for not believing correctly, and then living my life in bondage to fear of not performing correctly… then I cannot have faith.

But, if I understand that God is all-loving, all-inclusive, and all-forgiving, then I can rest in that, and find myself to be pulled into His faith… His faith in me, and I can marvel in the relationship He has made with me!

The thing you call “sin” is a rebellous act. It is acting in ways that hurt me, and hurt other people. When I think that God only accepts me into relationship with Him because of something I do, I can never trust that relationship with assurance. If I must count on my own abilities to conjoin with my creator, I will always doubt that it is true. Why? Because I am a failure. Maybe you are not, and can trust your abilities to please God. I cannot. And without that assurance, hopelessness sets in. Self-destructiveness (sin) sets in. When my hope is only as sure as my own abilities, then reality tells me that I have no hope. Having no hope leads me to abandon interest in self, and in others.

The only thing I can have assurance in, is that Christ redeemed me to the Father without my input, permission, or knowledge. But, gaining knowledge of that, put’s my mind at ease, confident that Jesus paid the price for me, and that the Father has reached out to me in love and kindness. Knowing that sets me free to enjoy life with Him, and rest in His peace. That is so satisfying, and so fulfilling, and builds such hopefulness, that I find myself changing inside. I no longer desire the things of life which cause harm to myself and others. The appetites of power, lust, envy, etc. are fading away. I have nothing to do with it. I don’t have to make myself obey, conform, or strive in any way. His love is changing my mind about life, and His peace is drawing me into a new place… a place of incredible contentment.

This is a wonderful place to be!

]]> By: Dave http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-1/#comment-838 Dave Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:01:34 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-838 A serious moral effort is the only thing that will bring you to the point where you throw up the sponge. Faith in Christ is the only thing to save you from despair at that point: and out of that Faith in Him good actions must inevitably come. There are two parodies of the truth which different sets of Christians have, in the past, been accused by other Christians of believing: perhaps they may make the truth clearer. One set were accused of saying, "Good actions are all that matters. The best good action is charity. The best kind of charity is giving money. The best thing to give money to is the Church. So hand us over Ј10,000 and we will see you through." The answer to that nonsense, of course, would be that good actions done for that motive, done with the idea that Heaven can be bought, would not be good actions at all, but only commercial speculations. The other set were accused of saying, "Faith is all that matters. Consequently, if you have faith, it doesn't matter what you do. Sin away, my lad, and have a good time and Christ will see that it makes no difference in the end." The answer to that nonsense is that, if what you call your "faith" in Christ does not involve taking the slightest notice of what He says, then it is not Faith at all-not faith or trust in Him, but only intellectual acceptance of some theory about Him. - C.S. Lewis (again), from Mere Christianity A serious moral effort is the only thing that will bring you to the point where you throw up the sponge. Faith in Christ is the only thing to save you from despair at that point: and out of that Faith in Him good actions must inevitably come. There are two parodies of the truth which different sets of Christians have, in the past, been accused by other Christians of believing: perhaps they may make the truth clearer. One set were accused of saying, “Good actions are all that matters. The best good action is charity. The best kind of charity is giving money. The best thing to give money to is the Church. So hand us over Ј10,000 and we will see you through.” The answer to that nonsense, of course, would be that good actions done for that motive, done with the idea that Heaven can be bought, would not be good actions at all, but only commercial speculations. The other set were accused of saying, “Faith is all
that matters. Consequently, if you have faith, it doesn’t matter what you do. Sin away, my lad, and have a good time and Christ will see that it makes no difference in the end.” The answer to that nonsense is that, if what you call your “faith” in Christ does not involve taking the slightest notice of what He says, then it is not Faith at all-not faith or trust in Him, but only intellectual acceptance of some theory about Him.

- C.S. Lewis (again), from Mere Christianity

]]> By: Bruce http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-1/#comment-835 Bruce Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:26:52 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-835 Oh Doug, I feel your pain. I really do. It's funny how religious people seem to hate me so much! It reminds me of a story from the bible... Oh Doug, I feel your pain. I really do. It’s funny how religious people seem to hate me so much! It reminds me of a story from the bible…

]]> By: doug http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-1/#comment-833 doug Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:55:33 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-833 Spent three hours today, one on one, in my car with a 65 year old christain missionary from mexico, as u can imagine I did not fit his biblical mandate, I now believe in hell, it rode 122 miles with me,, ..... Can i get an ,,,, AMAN BROTHER,, LOL Spent three hours today, one on one, in my car with a 65 year old christain missionary from mexico, as u can imagine I did not fit his biblical mandate, I now believe in hell, it rode 122 miles with me,, …..

Can i get an ,,,, AMAN BROTHER,, LOL

]]> By: Dave http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-1/#comment-828 Dave Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:04:30 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-828 Hi fellows, sorry for the delay in responding, I've been exceedingly occupied the past several days. [[Dave, I don’t think anyone here would agree that all are saved (a renewing of the mind and spirit). I believe most of us agree that there is a big difference between redemption and salvation.]] Nevertheless, you believe that all WILL be saved, which still negates the value of the Great Commission, is not Scripturally sound, and invalidates the vitality of missions work, from the apostles of Christ on through the ages to the present day. [[Salvation will eventually come to all because all will someday come to a full understanding of their redemption in Christ.]] All will eventually recognize Christ as Lord, but this does by no means indicate that they will be saved unto Heaven. "It is appointed to man once to die, but after this comes judgment." What do you do with the accounts in Revelation, where whoever did not appear in the Lamb's Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire forever? Where does "all men being saved" reconcile with "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"? What about the words of our Lord, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" I certainly gave you enough other references clearly indicating a separation between saved and unsaved. And this separation is eternal. Not only will "good" people go to hell, but people who believed in God, and who did works in His name! For even the demons believe in God - "and shudder." [[Knowing that God is not angry with us (redemption), will free our minds from all the fears, doubts, mistrustings, and guilt (salvation) that we all carry with us.]] I disagree. Granted, different people need to hear the different aspects of the Gospel. For example, Jesus offered the living water to the lonely outcast Samaritan at the well. But He also instructed Nicodemus that the Son of Man came not to bring peace, but a sword. He said to "come unto me, all who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you peace" but He also advised His followers to take up the cross, and that in the world His followers will have tribulation, and that the world will hate them. I don't know what culture you're living in if you think they need to hear more about how God is NOT angry with them. They don't need the ineffective hellfire preachers brought back, but neither do they need to be told of an all-tolerant "it's all good" God who is comfortable with them where they are. That is a lie that will "comfort" people right into hell. [[Dave, has your mind been saved from all the doubt and fear that “life” has heaped upon you?]] Only through Christ's covering, and only through accepting Him as savior. Whether Calvinist or Armenian, you have to acknowledge some human role in this process, otherwise there is no free will, IE, no human role to be played at all, meaning that there is no human response needed or required, meaning Christ commanded us to preach His gospel in vain. This is not a "work" - it is acknowledging that nothing we can do can save us. Not for naught did Christ describe hell so vividly, where the fire is not quenched, and where despair is overwhelming. [[Or do you love God because you are fearful NOT to? Have you pushed youself onto him as a means of self-preservation?]] I serve the living God in devotion and gratitude, but there is nothing wrong with a healthy fear of Him. He is Almighty, and to be feared as well as loved. [[All those years… wasted… thinking it was up to me to secure my destiny with God.]] In reality, it is up to you to let go, to die to yourself, and only then can you become who God has ordained you to be. [[Dave, If you agree that salvation is the result of believing, would you agree that all will eventually confess belief and praise God for His glorious work? Rom 14:11 11 "for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”]] This is not a guarantee that God's offer of salvation will remain standing forever. Recall that in Isaiah, we read "Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near." (Cf. 2 Chronicles 15:2, Acts 17:27, 2 Corinthians 6:1-2) These and other verses show that God will not always be available. Hi fellows, sorry for the delay in responding, I’ve been exceedingly occupied the past several days.

[[Dave, I don’t think anyone here would agree that all are saved (a renewing of the mind and spirit). I believe most of us agree that there is a big difference between redemption and salvation.]]

Nevertheless, you believe that all WILL be saved, which still negates the value of the Great Commission, is not Scripturally sound, and invalidates the vitality of missions work, from the apostles of Christ on through the ages to the present day.

[[Salvation will eventually come to all because all will someday come to a full understanding of their redemption in Christ.]]

All will eventually recognize Christ as Lord, but this does by no means indicate that they will be saved unto Heaven. “It is appointed to man once to die, but after this comes judgment.” What do you do with the accounts in Revelation, where whoever did not appear in the Lamb’s Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire forever? Where does “all men being saved” reconcile with “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels”? What about the words of our Lord, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” I certainly gave you enough other references clearly indicating a separation between saved and unsaved. And this separation is eternal.

Not only will “good” people go to hell, but people who believed in God, and who did works in His name!

For even the demons believe in God – “and shudder.”

[[Knowing that God is not angry with us (redemption), will free our minds from all the fears, doubts, mistrustings, and guilt (salvation) that we all carry with us.]]

I disagree. Granted, different people need to hear the different aspects of the Gospel. For example, Jesus offered the living water to the lonely outcast Samaritan at the well. But He also instructed Nicodemus that the Son of Man came not to bring peace, but a sword. He said to “come unto me, all who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you peace” but He also advised His followers to take up the cross, and that in the world His followers will have tribulation, and that the world will hate them.

I don’t know what culture you’re living in if you think they need to hear more about how God is NOT angry with them. They don’t need the ineffective hellfire preachers brought back, but neither do they need to be told of an all-tolerant “it’s all good” God who is comfortable with them where they are. That is a lie that will “comfort” people right into hell.

[[Dave, has your mind been saved from all the doubt and fear that “life” has heaped upon you?]]

Only through Christ’s covering, and only through accepting Him as savior. Whether Calvinist or Armenian, you have to acknowledge some human role in this process, otherwise there is no free will, IE, no human role to be played at all, meaning that there is no human response needed or required, meaning Christ commanded us to preach His gospel in vain. This is not a “work” – it is acknowledging that nothing we can do can save us.

Not for naught did Christ describe hell so vividly, where the fire is not quenched, and where despair is overwhelming.

[[Or do you love God because you are fearful NOT to? Have you pushed youself onto him as a means of self-preservation?]]

I serve the living God in devotion and gratitude, but there is nothing wrong with a healthy fear of Him. He is Almighty, and to be feared as well as loved.

[[All those years… wasted… thinking it was up to me to secure my destiny with God.]]

In reality, it is up to you to let go, to die to yourself, and only then can you become who God has ordained you to be.

[[Dave, If you agree that salvation is the result of believing, would you agree that all will eventually confess belief and praise God for His glorious work? Rom 14:11 11 "for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”]]

This is not a guarantee that God’s offer of salvation will remain standing forever. Recall that in Isaiah, we read “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.” (Cf. 2 Chronicles 15:2, Acts 17:27, 2 Corinthians 6:1-2) These and other verses show that God will not always be available.

]]> By: Cliff http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/27/my-life/comment-page-1/#comment-780 Cliff Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:15:52 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2007/09/06/my-life/#comment-780 Well said Bruce. Dave, If you agree that salvation is the result of believing, would you agree that all will eventually confess belief and praise God for His glorious work? Rom 14:11 11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." RSV Well said Bruce.

Dave, If you agree that salvation is the result of believing, would you agree that all will eventually confess belief and praise God for His glorious work?

Rom 14:11
11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
RSV

]]>