I try to explain what it is that I don’t understand about what you say but I miss I guess! Oh well, I’ve had enough for one day. How about you? ;-}

Pam

Of course, now that I’ve departed from traditional religion’s version of the Gospel, I look back on it, and can’t understand how someone could choose to believe THAT either!

But, having experienced the certain love of God, and understanding the perfection of that love, and the perfection He has placed me into, I can tell you that until someone can allow themselves to believe that there is NO reason to fear God, they will continue to miss salvation. They are still redeemed to God completely, but they won’t be able to move into the freedom that comes from perfect relationship with God. Fear leads to bondage (to many things, take your pick). But the absence of fear allows our minds to rest and enter into that perfect peace that Father desired for us all along.

If we came to God through fear, we are fooling ourselves if we think our relationship with God is without doubt (in our own minds). Fear requires a response, and a response initiated by us will only last a time. Then we need to renew the response, again, and again, and again… always living in some stage of doubt. That doubt will be an obstacle for arriving at salvation. That doubt will rob us of life… peace… salvation.

But, when we understand the fullness of the love of God, and fear vanishes, there is no need to respond to His call (works of man), but only to rest in His peace, and find ourselves drawn deeper and deeper into His love… not by our choice, but by His plan.

I know it seems like such a minor difference, but the impact it had on my life was earthshaking! I hope that everyone I encounter can come to that point in their lives, and that’s why I can’t NOT share it with everyone I know.

You say you don’t understand it, and that’s OK. Not everyone gets it right away. Maybe you just haven’t encountered the right person to say the words exactly as you need to hear them. Or maybe that the words lose meaning because you are reading them through a mindset of religious indoctrination (I don’t think this is true for you). But, the Gospel of Peace, proclaiming the Good News of the Messiah of God will find a home in every person’s heart!

Yes, we trip over the timeline. Only God can change my mind. My only desire all these years has been to understand yours. I still don’t know WHY you guys believe what you do! LOL! But….UNCLE!!! I give up!;-]

Pam

But, the question that changes lives is, “who IS Jesus”.

I think the thing that most separates our thinking at this time is the future tense you use… “is sanctifying… will redeem…”

I used to believe that too, but no longer. I believe the Cross of Christ redeemed (past tense) us and brought us into a full standing of righteousness before the Father. The law of sin and death is defeated, and when our minds can comprehend that, salvation occurs… sanctification manifests. I don’t see it so much as a process as a moment of revelation.

The ‘point’ is just Jesus, Bruce.:0)

If we can wrap our minds around “who Christ is” and begin to find our fear about life, death, and assuredness of our standing with God, we will know an abundance of life we’ve not seen before. *That* is salvation… the understanding of the assuredness of our redemption. It is the point at which our minds are “saved” from ourselves and our misconceptions of our place with God.

Bruce, Yes, I think it is important to study the Prophets. The OT and the NT are dependent upon one another for full understanding. Sometimes, we have contradictions within ourselves that cause us to see contradiction in scriputure but they aren’t there. Instead, God is working to correct our inward contradiction by the washing of His Word. In time, His time, that which confuses us is made clear as He reveals more of Himself to us.

I also believe that Jesus came to save the world. Nothing will prevent Him from doing so. He bought all of us with His blood. I just think we are still in that process, we haven’t fully arrived yet. Though I do believe that God is no longer counting sins against us. They have been fully covered.

Jesus is more than a premise. He is a living person. By His blood, by His laying Himself down in sacrifice, He opened the Way to Life. He bought us with His blood and then He rose from the dead in bodily form. By the power of His resurrection, He gained the power to send His Holy Spirit to indwell us that we might also have the mind of Christ the He might live in us. It is the power of His Life in us through that indwelling that redeems us. Through us, God has injected His Life back into a dying world, to save that world. It is the Life that is Jesus that saves, that redeems, the individual and indeed the entire Creation that has been held under the Law of sin and death for so long. We’ve been saved by His blood, snatched from certain destruction but we haven’t been fully brought back to health. Again, read the book of Isaiah. Read of the Kingdom and the marvelous things yet to come. It gets much, much better than this guys.

Bruce and geo, it really doesn’t matter too much if we have theological agreement. Understanding is a good thing. Even when we don’t agree it can be a good thing. When we test the things God as revealed to each of us against what the other knows, we are each refined. It is an important process by which we learn the validity of the beliefs we hold. Iron sharpens iron. We just have to keep our personal feelings out of it as much as possible so that our feelings don’t get in the way of what God is trying to teach us in one another. God does not depend upon what any of us believe about Him. We really ought to be able to discuss honestly without taking offense. Truly, I mean no offense.

If you find a point upon which I have extrapolated (forced the scriptures to fit a previously held concept of my own) please, point it out to me. I try not to do this as I want to be brought into agreement with God’s Word and not the other way around but I am human.

Pam

p.s. I agree that all of the scriptures are lifeless without Jesus Christ.

Bottom line, George contends (as do I) that the Messiah, as foretold by prophecy, is the redeemer… the savior of the world! Not just an “option” for redemption… but REDEMPTION itself! That’s good news to me! And from that understanding, the observations, reports, and commentaries we call the new testament, take on a whole new meaning… a whole new life.

It all starts with the premise of “who the Christ is” and until we understand that, all the rest is just a lot of words… good words… inspiring and beautiful, but void of real life.

As are your conclusions about the N.T. Pam.

Again the question “What Did Jesus call the scriptures”? I know that you believe the N.T. is scripture. But did Jesus ever identify them as such? All I am saying is that you go beyond what Jesus called the scriptures when you say that the N.T. writings are such.

Peace
Geo