I’m not a “real” anything
I’m not sure I really consider myself a christian. I’m not even real sure what that means. But, I’m pretty sure that "real" christians wouldn’t consider me a christian.
But, I do find myself drawn to the Jew’s story of a Messiah who would come to redeem the world, once lost, to it’s creator. I see a message of extreme love, and I am drawn to the author of that love. I go where I am called, and I am inexplicably pulled into that revelation. If the story of the Cross of Christ is true, then it has made a difference in the life of every human being, especially if they understand what happened. If it is not true, then we are all doomed to deal with our own fears and doubts.
I don’t think traditional/modern christianity understands the cross at all, and instead trust their doctrines, structures, people, and rituals. They have lost sight of the cross completely (except for the lip-service they give it). They dance all around it, but never embrace it for what it is… a revelation of God’s complete, full, pure, and overwhelming Love!
I, too, feel strange these days saying I’m a Christian, usually opt for the “protestant” nomer instead, because it’s too hard to describe who I am in a few short words for some check box or survey. Being a “Christian” means what?
Is It being a person that hangs around with other people that think God just might be real and if we try REAL hard we might get to meet him? Or does it mean you have a ticket into Heaven?
Well, being one who knows Christ, what he did and WHO I AM now, is simply this: Being an actual child of THE living God, the ONE that built the wondrous universe we keep discovering; even the ONE that came up with building a package that holds atoms together in a semblance of a person that houses the part of GOD that looks like HIM!
Hi Bruce, the message of the cross can only bring to the heart and mind true liberation. Any other message taught about the cross to humanity by well meaning people can only bring bondage and confusion.
The scripture foretold of the savior and that is were i found my freedom. God said my people perish for lack of knowledge. In other words, my people are being starved with hunger for the truth. Yes bruce that is what doctrines and traditions of men do to Gods creation, they starve them of the truth. We need truth to hold us all firm in this life. The bible calls it a sure foundation. Thank God my life is built on the rock and my spiritual house can not fall. And yes we where on sinking sand at one time but no more we are all on the rock which cannot move anchored firm and deep in the saviors love.
Thanks bruce stand firm,
kenneth
Judy and Kenneth, thank you for your encouragement. It’s nice to know that there are others on the journey with me. Thing is, I don’t think it would make me feel any differently if there weren’t others along. I don’t see it as validation. I can’t say that I believe it because others believe it. I believe what I believe because it’s the only thing I *can* believe. But, it’s nice to be able to share the richness of the journey with others who are experiencing the same thing. It adds to the wonder, and to the joy.
It really is amazing how different life is when you can see all people as dear, beloved, redeemed children of God. It changes you dramatically. Sadly, those who fool themselves with religion, trying to balance their love with their fear, trying to *be* the image of their Father (though that image is sickly twisted), and trying to win their angry God’s attention and favor… can only trust in the faith they have in themselves to have faith in their God. Oh the torment, when they lose that faith, and everything comes crumbling down. But oh the joy, when they come to the end of themselves and blindly trust in the faith God has in them! That faith has/will change the world!
Bruce, You spoke my heart as if we were the same exact person. Oh how glad I am to call my self your friend.
Thanks Bruce for your thoughts. I’m so glad I don’t have to call myself a Christian anymore. Humanity is now my brothers and sisters! What a relief! The pure love of our Lord is our life force. Thanks brothers and sisters!!
I now just say I am a child of God just like you are.
Love in Christ Dan
I know I am in Christ and He is in me, what is called a Christian. I don’t know this for sure about anyone else. I look for the fruits of the Spirit in those who name Him. In those in whom I can’t see those fruits, I look for that in them which holds the possibility of Christ in them when He is revealed to them. In either case, all that is required of me is to love them as myself the religious and the nonreligous alike.
I don’t really struggle with this but I do struggle with loving mockers. They can be like a continual dripping that wears ones patience away. Then I think of God my Father and the mockery that He continually endures from His very own children. Children whom He has given everything even the blood of Jesus and yet, they continue to mock. Then I know that He is also able to give me that which I need to endure the mocking of those who have set themselves against me. Or…not even me but against Jesus in me. By this I know that I will endure for as long as He endures and that His Mercy endures for ever toward me and the mocker together. For if Christ had not been revealed to me, I too would be sitting in the seat of the mocker.
You know, its been a strange day.
Wow Pam, that’s quite a mouthful. I’m not sure I really understand completely, but that’s OK. I’m glad you stopped by. It’s always a treat to hear your thoughts.
I hope your days are bright!
Cliff, Waldo, Dan… great love to you all! Peace and joy!
Sorry, Bruce. It is really just a mindful trying to get out through my mouth. As far as bright days, sometimes life stinks but God is good!
Pam
Two adams, two trees… let us all come to an understanding of this. Then we will see the love of our father. Live life loved.
The two adams and the two trees says it all for me.
Pam, Do not look at the outward appearance my sister. The tree of the knowledge of evil still makes us all judge by it. The tree of life lets all know we have all been accepted in the beloved. There are mockers, but they are beloved also. Behold him and you will behold us all… mockers and all. Now thats grace!
kenneth
Ps you are a beloved sister and one i’am glad i have heard on this site.I hope you days become brighter and brighter.
peace to you and all.
kenneth.
Thanks, kenneth. Blessings to you too.:0)
Pam
Bruce
I DIS-AGREE!
You are a REAL Friend!
Peace
Geo
The mockers are those who think that their belief makes them closer or more accepted by God. Mockers ARE NOT those who refuse to believe in God but those who do and think that by doing so they are “chosen”
Peace
Geo
Oh, I see now. Good thoughts, Pam! Thanks for the explanation, Geo!
geo,
That is one kind of mocker. There are also those who simply love to torment and they also feel guilty for living their lives against their conscience. This drives them to try and knock down those who do live according to conscience. They are irreligious but also live their lives according to the tree of good and evil. They relish in putting evil for good and seeing if those they see as ‘good’ people will stand for it. It is a game they play regardless of the pain it causes their target. To them the other person is only a target and serves no purpose but to entertain their derisive sense of humor.
There is another kind of mocker who speaks often of God but in secret, they think of themselves as God and they seek to make others over in their own image. They love to look at themselves and nothing pleases them more than to be able to see themselves as they imagine themselves in others. They live for admiration and they live in a world of one seeing all others as extentions of themselves there to serve the black hole of their own inner need.
These are only two kinds of mockers and sometimes these two combine as one. There are many more because sin is still very active in the world. I wish I could escape it all but I can’t yet. I still daily must die to the mocker that still lives within me.
“Blessed is he who does not sit in the seat of the mocker” that can only be Jesus. Thankfully, He lives within me too and gives me what I need to endure the taunts of the mockers that live within and without; and not only endure but also overcome as one day all mockers will be silenced through the finished work of Jesus Christ through His Death that opened the Way to Mercy for the mocker who only deserves judgement. On the day that Jesus Who has been revealed to me is fully revealed to all. No mocker can stand and taunt when he truly sees Jesus for Who He is.
I’m tellin’ you guys, the best is yet to come!;-)
Pam Wrote:
I’m tellin’ you guys, the best is yet to come!;-)
Geo Here:
I’m tellin’ you Pam THE BEST HAS COME! Open your eyes and accept it!
If “sin” is active as you say Pam, then John The Baptist was a liar!
Peace
Geo
Ohhhh, geo we could toss that around until the cows come home…
The way I read that is that in Christ we no longer live to sin. Before I knew Jesus, my sin was the center of my life. After He was revealed to me, He became the center of my life and the sin that I had loved previously just wasn’t fun any more. I still sin but I don’t wallow in it and love it the way that I used to. Jesus is my life now and I am changed. When His process of Life is completed in me, I won’t even remember how to sin. I believe that this same process is also taking place in all the earth but it begins in me and all others of the called out company of Jesus Christ. My eyes are open and things are pretty darn good for me but I know it isn’t all about me, it is about Jesus saving the world. When that is complete, there will be no more tears, sorrow, or pain, no more war and it will be that way for everybody.
Anyway, geo what is important for each of us is Jesus. No matter how each of us understand it all, it is He Who is working it all out in each of us.
Pam
Hey Bruce,
I’m not calling myself a Christian anymore. I’ve decided that it is just not helpful for me personally or for others. There is way to much negative stuff attached to it. BTW, as you may know, I live in a northern Canadian community where I am a minority amongst a largely Aboriginal population… say you are a Christian and you start with one strike against you and understandably so. Besides all that it would be intellectuallly dishonest for me to call myself a Christian… I just don’t believe what “Christians” are known/said to believe and I do not wish to be numbered among them.
Blessings!
Jim
Pam Wrote:
I still sin but I don’t wallow in it
Geo Here:
Good luck Pam with your “sin” problem.
As for me I no longer have any “sin” problems.
The World’s Redeemer took away the law that held sin in place and now there is no sin any longer. Thank God He set me and all of captivity free from the law of sin and death and now we all live in righteousness. If only the world was aware of the righteousness that already lives in them the world would be a better place. That is our message here at Bold Grace.Com That you are Righteous, Holy and without Blemish regardless of your acceptance or obedience! The world was Redeemed by THE REDEEMER and man’s rejection or acceptance of it as far as eternity goes makes no difference. It will make a difference in this life but from God we ALL came to to Him we will ALL go!
Once again good luck with your “sin” problem.
Peace
Geo
OK, now about being The Chosen Ones, all of humanity has been given that moniker, not just a “select” few–One evening Bruce told us this story: That of a man who found a great pearl. He loved the beautiful gem so that he hid it away in a vast field. This man then went to the owner of the field, gave him all that he had, and bought the field to own the pearl. (Mat 13:46)
Does this seem familiar to you? We have all heard it in Sunday School. I was taught that Jesus is this great gem and we must give all that we have to “possess” His heart. Rather Father had made this perfect Pearl and buried it in the atmosphere of this old Earth. Bruce suggests that we, huMANkind, are the great pearl and Father gave all He HIMSELF had to possess us. Along with the story being embedded with it’s new twist into my heart, I now wear a pearl on my golden chain in the stead of my dear cross. I KNOW Jesus died on that tree, what I need to remind myself and thus the wearing, is that I am the great pearl. The Father’s love for us was so deep. He took a part of himself his own rib, as it were, and crushed (it )to buy us back from sin and death.
How much MORE chosen can anyone and everyone be than that?
I wholeheartedly agree that sins are counted no more. Jesus’ blood has covered them all for all. That shed blood opened the Way to Life, these also are both Jesus. Jesus blood covered our sins and His life is freeing us from sin, it will not only be covered but completely washed away. This will be a physical reality that which is already a Spiritual reality for those of us to whom Christ Jesus has been revealed. Our Salvation by the Power of His Revelation is a part of the full Revelation of Jesus Christ, when the faith will be made sight and all that is now mortal becomes immortal.
Those of us in Christ are made holy apart from the Law but the not one title of the Law will ever pass away for it is of God, it is Spiritual, and it is holy.
My problem with my sin is not mine to take care of. Rather, I take it to Jesus and He sets me free. I was like a dirty and forgotten cup that no one valued but Jesus loved me, saw God’s purpose for me, picked me up, and is dilligently and throughly cleansing me from the inside out. In this life, I remain in soapy water but when I meet my Lord in the air, I will be clean, dried, and polished and fully glorified as Jesus is glorified. This is my calling and purpose to demonstrate the full Mercy of God apart from any goodness or work of my own.
I’m sorry if I sound like a know it all. That isn’t my intent. I don’t know it all I’m just a big sister and that is a hard habit to break.
sins are counted no more
My problem with my sin
If “sin is counted no more” then how can you have “my sin”?
Sorry Pam, but your religion makes absolutely no sense to me. It is complex and confusing. I’m not sure I have enough years let to try to figure it out. So, I’ll just trust in Jesus including me, and you, and everyone else, into His righteousness, and into His perfection. Maybe I’m a fool for believing in such childishness, but it is the only thing that makes any sense to me, and it’s the only thing I can understand. Sorry, I’m just not the religious type, I guess. But, you enjoy it… so have a blast!
You have suceeded Bruce in hurting my feelings. I know I’m complex. I never called you a fool. I am sorry if that is what my words implied. You have a religion too even if you can’t see it. It shows every time you put me down as being religious. Feel the sting? That is sin, it is common to us all, and when acknowleged humbles each of before God. When ignored it hardens us and renders us useless.
My statement was only partially quoted. My problem with sin is not my problem. Jesus takes care of it. He covered it and He is dealing with it to rid me of it. What He does for me is open to everyone. If you don’t need Him****shrug?*****you’ve finally left me speachless. I guess for you there is no true anything? I guess then we are not on the common ground that I imagined. I am sorry that I have troubled you all for so long.
Be well.
Sorry, Pam. You win.
Sin is no more, but Jesus is ridding us of it.
I’ll try to figure out what that means.
Pam,
You must understand that none of us here at bold grace ever intend to hurt anyone’s feelings. We have all been where you are and we can never go back, not even a little. We respect you and know that you mean us well but for us you are still in the trap of thinking something is required of a human being to be OK with God. Much of what you say we agree with knowing that each choice we make can have a profound effect on the lives we live here on earth, but nothing we do good or bad, sin or sinless will ever separate us from our Father, and once you know that truth you can never be trapped again. Please feel free to come back often because we know that you have a heart still searching and we hope that never stops.
Pam,
I DITTO what Cliff said! You are loved and welcome here as ALL are but we at Bold Grace.com can NEVER go back to what you believe about belief.
Peace
Geo
Pam, I hope you’re still readin. For most of fifty years I walked the born again walk, taught it to my kids–those born to us and those brought by the Grace of Father’s choosing, and others’ kids in church school, … They are all Christians. My daughter said to BRuce and I not long ago, “I wondered when you would see this is as the end of all the religious training –That Jesus’ Death and resurrection brings us to a world ransomed whether we like it or not!”
My Catholic(and saved) daughter in Law struggles with murderers and rapists but can understand that Jesus dying and coming back to us was the price paid for huMANity’s soul(s). I sing “Days of Elijah”, seeing Jesus riding that cloud in my mind’s eye, but what thrills me is not a turning a blind eye to the sin of the world, but focusing on the greatest LOVE that is now embedded within me and us all. Seeing the Holy light in each of Father’s creations is my mission here on this big blue ball, till I’m called home to sit and ask Jesus about any confusion that might try to arise. I’m mightily blest and contented to to bask in the light in each of God’s creations, and strive to fan that light as much and as often as I can.
Dear Heart, Your light is bright and can be used to bring it out of those who think their’s is non existent. Through love and not judging (us from them)we can show them the little light that is their’s really is still lit. Be blest in your life…J
Pam, having come out of the darkness of religion, and into the incredible light of freedom which is Christ, I am deeply compelled to confront, and question, the mindset of religious captivity. I dearly wish someone would have confronted me a long time ago, and saved me 35 years of fear and doubt trying to satisfy the religous systems and practitioners. The horribly insidious thing about captivity, is that it convinces (read: brainwashes) those trapped in it that they are not enprisoned.
Maybe it’s quite the same for me. Maybe I am trapped in the freedom of the Grace message, and can’t see it. All I know, is that this was not of my own choosing. It is something I was drawn into (and not without a considerable detoxification period). But, I can say with all certainty that it is a world apart from the religious mindset which held me captive previously. For the first time in my life, I can say that I am truly in love with God… and I had nothing to do with it. I used to push myself onto Him out of fear, but now I am drawn into Him through pure love. It is a world of difference that probably can’t really be explained… and can only be experienced. But, the experience cannot begin until the captivity of religion ends. The slate must be wiped clean. A fresh beginning is needed.
I think you have to allow me to see it my way. This started because I just wanted to know what your way of seeing it is and try to understand your point of view. Everyone has to be allowed their own process. Acceptance doesn’t mean to go out and make people over into our own image. Religious bondage does not come from without and it is not the fault of others. It comes from within, from our own imaginings that take us away from the authority of God in our own personal lives. Relgious bondage is our own ideas in the place of Jesus Christ.
The rule of religion will end. Of that I am certain but I won’t bring it about. It is completely the work of God.
I’ve no hard feelings and no matter how you read my comments (which were really just my honest answers to your questions) I have no need or desire to convert you to my personal beliefs about God. They are only what God has given me in response to the questions I have asked Him over the last thrity years. They are not Jesus. People need Jesus. They don’t need my answers. I can’t teach God. I can’t give people Jesus. All I can do is share what He’s given me and love them with the Love that He fills me with, point toward Him, praying that He will be revealed to them and know that He will be in God’s own time.
Presently, I desire to love others with the Love that Jesus loves me. Love that does not require my perfection but reaches me in my need. I desire to love without being a respector of persons and to love with that Love in honesty from the heart and not out of pretense.
That’s cool, Pam.
I hope you’ll forgive my zeal in attempting to include you in the peace of Christ that those who gather here have found. I know you’ll balk at the idea, but we have been right where you are… I think I can speak for all of us by saying that. We were all trapped in traditional religious thinking, and finally came to a place where we could no longer suppress the doubts and fears that we were all hiding behind our smiley-masks. We turned our backs on religion and found the wonder, the simplicity, and the power of Christ. We can’t help but want the same for you. But, maybe you’re not ready for that kind of freedom. And that’s OK. We understand. It took me several years of seeking to admit that I had been held captive by my twisted religious thinking. And once I admitted it to myself, it took years more to break free from it, and fall into the arms of Jesus.
Please know that you are loved. And though you don’t need ANYONE’S permission, you can believe whatever you want. But, please understand that what you believe about God will lead your mind to salvation, or away from it.
To me, and I might surely be wrong, you seem fearful about your relationship with God. You seem like you struggle to please him and doubt your abilities to measure up. Yes, you say all the right words about grace and forgiveness, but deep down, it sounds like you don’t really believe it. It’s not for me to judge anyone’s heart, but I am always concerned about the peace (the fruit) one carries inside. We can all recongnize someone’s state of mind by the words they say, and I am concerned for you. That’s all it is. I’m not worried about your place in the Kingdom. The Cross settled that once and for all. I’m concerned that you’re missing out on a wonderful, amazing time of life full of peace and joy… the salvation of your mind.
That said, we are all on a journey to God, and we must all travel the path laid out before us. When we come to the fork in the road, our decisions will not affect God’s love for us, but they will affect our perception of God’s love for us. I made a decision a few years ago that brought me into a state of salvation that I could not have experienced all those years in the church (with traditional religious thinking/indoctrination). And I am so glad for it. I want to jump for joy, and share God’s freeing love with everyone I meet!
Bruce,
You don’t know me too well and I really don’t know you. Probably the only person I totally believe in and trust in is, Jesus. You’re my brother but I’m not supposed to become like you and you aren’t supposed to become like me. Through Jesus, Christ is formed within each individual according to their own individual bent that only God fully knows or understands. The unity of God is not uniformity. Human beings seek uniformity because it makes us feel secure but that security is false. Peace comes from the love and acceptance of God not through human acceptance of self or others. Those are the product of God’s love and they can’t exist apart from Him. If we have any unity Bruce, it is in the person of Jesus Christ. It won’t happen by our pretending to think alike or believe that we think alike. You’ll never get that from me, buddy. I accept you as you are but lay off on trying to make me as you are…okay?
Don’t worry. Even if you don’t understand me, I am right where God wants me to be and I am free from sin in my spirit and one day, I will also be free of my flesh that tries everything it can muster to bring me back to the bondage of sin. I know that can’t happen, those attempts are daily thwarted, not because of anything I do, or don’t do, or another does, or choose but because Jesus lives in me.
You also are right where you’re supposed to be to according to God’s purpose and not yours or mine. You can’t really be my friend, Bruce unless you accept that. I don’t want your pity or unwarranted concern. I don’t need it. I have Jesus and He is enough.
Pam
That’s exactly what I’m talking about, Pam.
You say “sin” is no more, then you say your flesh is trying to take you back into the bondage of “sin”. If it is “no more”, what is your flesh taking you back to? Why do you worry so much? Either Jesus has redeemed you to the Father, or he hasn’t. If he has, nothing you can do, or anything you don’t do, can separate you from the love of God. Is God’s love that wishy-washy that he can turn it on and off according to your performance? What I’m hearing is that Jesus is not the answer, but only a tool. I feel sorry if that’s what you think. Maybe that’s why I’m so passionate about sharing the Good News with you. Maybe that’s what drives me to try to reveal to you. I long to see you set free from the fear that pulls you into that kind of thinking. I hear the fear in your words, and I hurt from it. But, there’s a time and a place for everything, and I feel like I’ve shared as much as I can. Any more would only frustrate and annoy you even more (if that’s possible). I wish you great peace, my friend. I wish you much happiness! Great love, Bruce
If I could have one wish it would be that all of those who fear what they are capable of would embrace it rather then turn from it. We are trained not to ask questions. We are trained to think that anything different is somehow wrong or a sin. If it isn’t a sin then we will make sure to turn it into one by talking to others about it and asking them what they think as if they know what is right and what is wrong. Today I overheard a conversation about someone’s sexuality and I know these kinds of conversations happen quite often, but this time I actually sat back and thought about how I couldn’t believe that someone’s sexuality was the topic of conversation. I chose to walk away from the conversation.
Not you, me, the Church, the athiest, the Environmentalist, the vegetarian, the loner, the Harley rider, the black man, the jew, the KKK member, the same sex partners, the President or even the Hippie can say what is right and what is wrong. Ultimately in the end whatever decision is made will affect each and everyone of us differently and if their are consequences to our actions then we will suffer through them individually. I truly believe that God is within me. God’s love will carry me and you through being the “topic of conversations”. His love will be with me through it all. God’s love will never be questioned and the decisions I make will not be questioned by God. Which means for me to never again encourage the self-righteous behavior which in the end is just the fear of darkness that we choose not to be a part of. If you look closely it is really just an illusion. It isn’t dark at all. It is just so bright that we close our eyes and never look. I truly feel God within me. I don’t care what anyone else see’s in me or thinks of me. I am perfect in the eyes of God and once I realized it I started to see it in everyone else and I am truly enjoying life now. No fears!! It is what it is whatever it is
I’m not frustrated, annoyed, or scared. The hardest thing to convey in writing is tone and I think you are assigning a preconceived tone to the words that I write. I’m not confused either, I’m just realistic. I’m not saying anything Paul did not say and probably, if there is anyone who thinks somewhat like I do it is Paul. He’s too complicated for many to understand also. I understand Paul’s writings like reading my own thoughts.
We’re just different people, Bruce.
I’m a painter and it takes me months to complete a painting because I am so aware of detail. I know what detail means in completing a whole image. I also know that most who look at my paitings don’t even see the detail but if I left it out, it wouldn’t be the same painting…
Other painters paint simple images and if they were to adopt my penchant for detail, it wouldn’t work. The simplicity of how they see would be lost. If I were to try to paint in simpler fashion, my paintings would just look incomplete.
I know my sin will not overcome me and that nothing can separate me from God. I also don’t live in a constant state of fear of my sin. It is just the way I am. I’m a human being. I am also a human being in the process of becoming. God is freeing me from sin through Jesus. He is working out the details in my life as He forms Christ in me. You can’t speed that process, Bruce! I also don’t want to complicate yours. I’m just interested in why you see the way you do. I’m a terribly questioning and inquisitive person. I am interested in people and why they think the way they do. You know, the details. LOL!
Anyway, all that boils down to is friendship. I don’t want to fix you and I’ve had more than enough in my life of people trying to fix me. I ain’t broken!
I’m happy, wish granted!;-}
Pam
Thanks, Pam. You are a good friend!
Mindy, that was beautiful! Thank you for your friendship!
And to all who read these words, the Light has come into the world. Learning to see it will save your mind from ALL that haunts you. Great love to all!
Bruce what a nice note to end this post.When you said,
The Light has come into the world. Learning to see it will save your mind from ALL that haunts you.
Amen my brother,
kenneth
Hey Bruce,
A little bird told me to drop by. I don’t know if your original question was for me but yeah, I know who I am. If I could read my friend’s heart, I wouldn’t have had to ask any questions. Now he has revealed it to me. Now I know more of who my friend is. I misunderstood what he was asking but it all worked to good anyway. We all have to make sure we are serving God and not ourselves.
Pam
NaNu! NaNu! to you too!;-}