Grace - Forgiveness - The Difference!
As I have moved into this wonderful position of understanding the power of grace I often thnk about what the difference is between those of us who preach the gospel of Grace & Peace and those who are still involved in traditional Christianity. Looking back over my early years in the church and observing others who are still involved in organized religion I have come to the conclusion that the main difference is between these two words "Grace & Forgiveness".
Grace is not something we have any power whatsoever over. Grace is God’s unmerited favor that has always been freely ours whether we believe in it or not.
Forgiveness on the other hand is something we receive in our minds by accepting it and believing it. My experience with most Christians is that here is where they struggle because of the message they are being taught. Most churches, if not all have regular alter calls or invitations to repent in order to stay within God’s good Graces. They are taught that unless they repent of their sins God is unable to deliver His grace and they could be in danger of spending eternity in torment. They are taught that God has done His part but they MUST do their part in order to be in a right relationship with HIm. The problem with that is their consciences are never made perfect because it always depends on their performance. It was the same way under the old covenant. Listen to the writer of Hebrews:
Heb 10:1-9 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Those who do not understand the Grace of God to be completely unconditional can never have their consciences purged of sin. Those who do understand that their performance or belief has NOTHING to do with receiving Grace enjoy a peace because all their fears have been cast out.
1 John 4:17-19 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.
Jesus is PERFECT and so are we because He has taken us all into his body on the cross. I long for the day that all my fellow travelers will understand this GREAT TRUTH and I know that all will eventually bow down on their knees in utter adoration at the LOVE that has always been there for them. Until that time arrives I will keep preaching to all that will hear "BEHOLD, THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD."
Peace and Love to All,
PS. By the way, I can say I have NO fear of punishment or death. How many Christians can say the same thing? I have not know many in my experience that can make that claim who are still involved in organized Christianity.
I WAS JUST READING THOSE SAME PASSAGES THIS PAST WEEKEND!
That last passage you quoted by John The Baptizer..
“BEHOLD, THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.”
Is one that evangelical christianity needs to explore more! John did not say Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the SINS of the world. But said He takes away THE SIN of the world! There was only one sin Jesus died for! And that one sin is the one sin that evangelical christianity does NOT BELIEVE He died for! That ONE SIN was UNBELIEF! That is why it is written that He was The Author and The Finisher of Faith. He began faith and He put an end to the requirement to have Faith. Mankind’s faith means nothing at all as far as eternity goes. It is only when you know you have been freed from the requirement to believe in order to receive redemption that you can then believe. A person who believes because they have to in order to receive redemption does not have any assurance in their heart of redemption at all. They will always at different points and situations in life wonder if they believe “rightly”
I no longer have any fears of the future. My heart has be established in Grace & Peace and I shall not be moved. The Gospel of Grace & Peace does not depend on my belief of it and as such it has set me free to be FREE! It is in that freedom that I have seen tremendous change in myself and others. I have seen people who come to the knowledge of Grace & Peace CHANGE not because they had to in order to please God but because they were FREE NOT TO CHANGE!
Thank You Cliff for this post.
We are ALL INCLUDED in the Beloved!
Peace
Geo
Hello All
Now Im wondering if you have fears like: Losing your Job, losing your wife or husband, death of a child, sickness, rejection of friends……..and so on and on. Now Im going to make a judgement call here. I work in the health field and part of what I do is a visual physical assessment of people. After delving into your site I have seen many pictures of thpse whose health from my assessment seem to be lacking. Now one thing I know from my experience is that many of our health issues are self made. In other words we abuse ourselves, and most times that is because we have emotional and spiritual challenges i.e FEAR. So I guess my point is if you have no fear why not deal directly with your health issues. I hope I dont offend anyone. Its just how my God given brain works.
John T,
Your points are well taken with no offense. I will say though that you need to correctly quote me. I said, “I have NO fear of punishment or death” relating to my position with God. Part of living this life is learning all that we are here to learn which will always include many obstacles from which we can grow from. We were never intended to live in fear of God punishing us and that’s why Christ came to show us the perfect love that has always been and will always be.
With saying the above I would agree with you that most peoples fears are related to spiritual challenges that are there because of the false message of religion, in particular organized Christianity. If you study the mental health field you will find most of the patients who are admitted to a Psyche ward have visions of Satan and evil spirits all relating to things they were taught as children.
Thanks Cliff
I guess were all trying to learn that “perfect love” thing ;). So im curious do any of you guys Golf?
Golf!
Not me I gave up spiritual challenges years ago! hahaha!
Peace
Geo
Hey John T
Would you be available for a call in show on Sunday morning?
Sure hope so. I will post the details as soon as they are finalized
Peace
Geo
The more I understand the Grace of God the more I understand how to be comfortable in my own shoes and how to wear someone elses shoes…if that makes any sense.
I find that I am becoming stronger and stronger and not as easily pursuaded to depend on other peoples perspectives. I am learning to understand and be proud of my stories and to not ignore the passion in other peoples stories. I am becoming unafraid of who I am. Don’t get me wrong I still hold back sometimes because of that slightly embeded fear of judgement that still remains from others or even the pressure or pursuation from others to become convicted or convict myself and others of being sinners. I do know this, everyday my faith grows stronger and the only jury that I am going to have at my trial is me, myself and I. I have come to a better understanding that no matter what I do I WILL BE judged and you know what?…Oh well. I will never again waste my time worried about whether or not God forgives me and I am going to start listening to my heart and allowing myself the time to believe and understand who I am. The more I understand the Grace of God the more I learn and have fun. I also find myself able to give more to others which in turn seems to better most relationships I have. I will NEVER ask for forgiveness, but what I will do is become stronger with every step I take even if it is the wrong step for me I am confident that I will learn from it. They are my steps, my mistakes and my experiences and God walks right along with me never judging me and never holding me back.
Hi Geo
Depending on the time I may be available. Remember some of us do have church on Sundays.
Thanks for the invite though
John T
I had no idea you were one of “them”! hahahaha!
What church do you attend?
Peace
Geo
Actually Im not really one of them. Not in the “Classic” sense. I enjoy the Pastor from a motivational stand point. Also I belong to a mens group who indulge my questions on faith(which differ greatly from theirs
). They are very good men, so I appreciate there community. Now the big question is how long they will tolerate me. Lately Ive been asking questions they cannot answer, and Im using the Big Black Book as my reference lmao.
I belong to Lifecentre in Ottawa Canada. They are making the switch from Pentecostal to Non Denominational.
Hey John
I used to go to the life Center church yrs ago
I know Pastor Barry Boucher and His wife
Wow small world
Jennifer
Hello Jennifer
Small world for sure. So do you still live in Ottawa? And by the way Pastor Barry has stepped down and now his son Jason is the lead Pastor. Really great orator. Fun and enlightening to listen to. Very different style than his Dad. Very loving people actually. Do you still go to church?
John
Hi John
I just moved back to Cornwall in Jan from Ottawa as there was a family need here. I have a duaghter living in Ottawa still.
I didn’t realiaze Barry had stepped down.
No I don’t go to church anymore. I used to go to New Life Covenant church here in Cornwall Bob Burgess was the pastor he and Barry where very close though and Bary would come to minister many times.
Good to know and meet others here.Take Care
Jennifer
Mankind’s greatest challenges: Fear and Guilt.
Thanks for the great reminder. We are as God is. And God is love. God has made us like himself. It is only when we forget or become confused that we act differently. Any one reinforcing a guilty conscience upon others has not come to terms with the gracious love of God for him/herself. We are not under law, but under grace.
Thank God!
The law destroys…
Grace fosters life — in abundance!
Ok here goes the great theological question. If God is the creator of everything, and God is Love……………………Where does Evil come from??
From the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Jphn alot of this what is being shared can only come from the Holy Spirit showing you we can share until we are blue in the face but if you seek and really want the truth God will show you
But be open to him when he does.
I remember when he sarted showing me about grace I had a million and one questions I just spent hours alone with my bible and asking him to show me. He was faithful and He did but I puled away from everythign but thats hat Ihad to do. We are all diffrent in our search of truth.
But keep an open mind
Jennifer
Thanks Jenn
Unfortunately the tree story is just too simple for my brain.
i KNOW JOHN IT WAS FOR ME TO IT TAKES A LOT OF LETTING THE HOLY SPIRIT SHOWING YOU YOU CAN READ ALL THIS STUFF BUT ONLY gOD CAN SHOW YOU WHERE IT MAKES SENSE
i TOTLALLY UNDERASTAND I HAD A HARD TIME WITH IT TOW TOOK ME A LOT OF SEARCHING BELEIVE ME. BUT IT’S UP TO YOU TO ALLOW GOD TO SHOW YOU. BUT YOUR SMARTER TO LET GOD SHOW YOU BELEIVE ME
Jenn,
I agree. The “tree.” But not in a literal sense, of course. Taking and eating from what does not belong to us — namely judgment. The tree of knowledge of G&E promises that we will have the capacity to judge correctly, especially when it comes to discerning what is God’s business.
The tree of life, though, offers us something far better becuase while knowledge puffs up, love builds up.
Kevin
Well said Kevin.
Yes I totally agree with you on that
Jenn
I, too, have NO fear of punishment or death. It’s a great place to be, isn’t it!?
I used to think that too, in my church days. I was quite comfortable in my place within the assembly. But, when I started questioning some of the practices, and felt the pressure of rejection, the fear that I had suppressed all those years began to bubble up to the surface again. “What if I was wrong? Was I being disobedient? Was I making a big mistake? Will I jeopardize my standing with God?” All those nagging questions began to torment my mind. I became paralyzed with fear. I doubted myself. I doubted God. I doubted life itself. And I dreaded the feeling that my destiny was becoming increasingly unknown.
The church had me in their grip, and convinced me that they were my safety net. I thought that “Jesus stuff” was nice and all, but my real faith was in the church. Big mistake! When I left the church, I quickly realized I had no faith at all. Every ounce of faith I had mustered up, was only faith of my own creation. I felt lost. I grew despondent. I was sick with worry and dread.
Then, someone told me about Jesus, and what the Cross of Christ really meant to all mankind. My mind rejected a grace that was “THAT good”, and my heart fought the gospel of Peace I was being drawn into. I told myself, “it can’t be that simple… that easy”! I was taught to believe that my salvation was up to me! Sure, it came from God, but it was completely up to me as to whether or not I would be included. The bondage that church doctrine had my under would not give up easily. But, the power of God was greater than the power of the church.
Slowly, my mind began to find relief as I found myself understanding the gospel message. Revelation struck me like a ton of bricks! Fear melted away, and doubt vanished. My soul found relief in the Cross of Christ as the redemption for all mankind… something I would have never heard in the church. And the Father immediately surrounded me with like-minded friends to walk the same journey to peace. It’s a wonderful place to be! It is truly heaven on earth!
Hello All Again
I find it interesting that though most here dont follow mainstream religious doctrine, you still follow the idea that Jesus is God………would it not be better to use a more Generic term so it would make all feel more included. I believe once you put a title to the energy source you immediately discredit people who dont use “your” title. More wars have been fought because of “people” using title such as Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, Krishna, and JESUS. Seems there is no “oneness” in any of those names.
“The bondage that church doctrine had my under would not give up easily”
Bruce
Even today after all this time I think we all have to daily choose not to reject grace and go back to believing following laws rules and regulations in order to be pleasing to God. That life of death is constantly trying to suck us back in. But GRACE WINS always weather we choose Grace or not. If we choose Grace then we remain “saved” if we choose the law then we lose that “salvation” And re-enter to a life of fear, death and destruction.
See ya tomorrow.
I am headed out to The Grand Ole Opry for a Show tonight and am going to spend the afternoon just touring around the place.
Till Morning
Peace
Geo
Church to me is wherever Christians are. Organized or not. Some groups are toxic and unhealthy like many of the posters here are describing. Others are not like that at all. I would say that most in the church I meet with have no fear of punishment or death. Far from it!
Hi John T.
I certainly don’t speak for the Bold Grace admins. But for me, the only name I’d put to what unites us all is Love. I call it Agapetheism. God is Love. No one can fight in the name of love.
Blessings,
Kevin
Hi Kevin
Now thats something to get on board for
John T,
I happen to believe in Jesus and at the same time see him as perfect love that is beyond naming. As far as accepting other people I accept all people whether they are believers or hardened criminals. My acceptance of them is not based on who they are or what they believe, but rather it is based on the knowledge that I have NOTHING to do with our connection. It is a connection that has always been from the beginning because God created us all in his image, even the ones who don’t yet see it. It also doesn’t have anything to do with agreeing with them on any subject. This is exactly where most churches go wrong. There has to be some basis of agreement before there can be fellowship. Some churches like Connie’s may allow a great deal of liberty but they have their line in the sand. I have no such line because God has not drawn one. I’m glad my wonderful cousin Connie has no fear of punishment or death and I take her at her word but then again she is my cousin and that alone makes her very special.
Cliff,
Amen. The connection simply is. may we all awaken to it.