A Simple Question
We do a lot of back and forth on this site about the merits of churchgoing, but doesn’t it come down to a very simple question?
ARE YOU HAPPIER GOING TO CHURCH?
If you answer that question with a yes then by all means go to church. If you answer it no then maybe you really need to take a long hard look at the real reasons you are attending.
As for me I can say without any doubts that I am much happier without it. Those who know me best know that I gave church going 100% with a very positive attitude for over 35 years and now for the first time I can actually compare because I haven’t been attending any church since September of 2007.
It really doesn’t matter to me what you choose to do because I believe that either way God will ultimately lead you to where you need to be. It does matter to me to see so many people under the bondage of religion and putting on a face of happiness when in reality they would much rather be doing something else.
We at Bold Grace are simply offering those people who are not happy with church going an alternative to help them realize they can truly be happier without church. For those who are happy then we are happy for you, but you don’t need to convince us. We have all been there and done that and for us church going is never going to happen.
I agree with you on this, Cliff. I am reading a couple of books by Jim Palmer (which you probably have already read) and he is someone who has made the decision not to go to an organized church anymore. What I appreciate about his point of view is that he doesn’t try to say that all organized religion is bad, just that it’s not best for him at this point in his life. He said that at one point in his journey he did have the thinking that all organized religion is bad, but then he realized that he was being just as judgmental as those who try to say everyone must attend church, or even their particular brand of church.
I believe that you had to go to church if you believe and then I believe it was wrong to go to church if they did preach the whole truth but now I believe that God has journey of love for us all in or out of the church.
We are under His love and grace on matter where we are that truly brings peace and joy to the heart and mind.
Love Dan
Well said Connie. We must continually try to get along regardless of our positions. I think maybe our greatest test is striving to love each other in the midts of our differences. I certainly want everyone to feel welcome here whether they attend or not.
Cliff
I think its Mind over Matter…………..If I dont Mind, it dont Matter
Thing is, how can someone know if they’re happier going to church, unless they’ve experienced not going to church?
When I participated in organized religion, I would have answered YES without hesitation. I was happier. But, having been forced out, then coming to a better personal understanding of religion and religious things, I would be a hypocrite to recommend to anyone to participate in such nonsense.
I admit that I do miss the fellowship, and the relationships. But, then again, looking back on it, none of those things ever actually existed in a genuine way in the church. There was the “appearance” of such, but the reality of it was that it was all a front. It fulfilled the requirement, and satisfied the obligation… all part of being a good “christian”. What a warped way of life that is!
But fellowship can be found in a variety of venues. And what I’ve discovered is that when you rid yourself of these unhealthy, unproductive, unREAL relationships… REAL ones will find their way to you. The problem is, when we spend so much time trying to fulfill the requirement for “christian” relationships, the real relationships that could exist, aren’t given enough time and attention to grow. Without the needed nurturing, they shrivel, and die. What could have been… will never be known because we didn’t have time to discover them fully. We were too busy playing the “church” game. That machine will eat you alive.
What I’ve learned is that only relationships built on openness, acceptance, and understanding, are real. Those built by people with agendas… agendas to change you, fix you, control you, and manipulate you… are doomed to fail – and make you as miserable as possible along the way.
You think you’re happy as part of organized religion? Give it time. Their methods are typically subtle and underlying, but with time, their motives will surface, and you will be sickened by it. Fortunately for the church, by time that happens, they will have indoctrinated you with requirement and obligation to such a degree that the guilt and shame of not conforming will drive you to overlook their agenda. They are professionals. They know what they’re doing, and they know how to do it well.
Beware…
I agree with you Bruce
I am so much happier now that I am out of church but like you said
unless one leaves and experiences not going to church they can’t really say.
One thing I have found is the relationships I had while in church I no longer have now that I don’t go. They have decided not to associate with me now because I don’t attend. Thats the sad part
Jennifer
I cut and pasted the following from a daily reading I receive by e-mail from Yoga Journal to share with you all. [For me, it helps explain why some feel they profit from "going to church" and others may not. It may be that we are at different places on our journey. Some of you may be already on the far shore, sailing on without your boat (organized religion), and the others of us are still in the boat (organized religion) on our way to self-realization]:
‘Often in spiritual literature, you’ll find the image of a boat used to symbolize the spiritual path. The reasoning runs like this: Just as a boat is used to cross a river and is then left behind once the far shore is reached, so too is a spiritual system used to cross the “river” of self-ignorance and then abandoned when self-realization is achieved. Spiritual practice is a means to an end.
Some yogis feel that today we must learn spirituality by prescription because we are not sensitive to whatever is natural in us. Then, once you recognize your authentic Self, the whole yoga practice will come to you. At that moment, we no longer need the system and can “throw it away.” We can sail on, in other words, without our boat.’
I am currently reading a book by Brain McLaren call Everything Must Change.It has open my eyes to see how people see things in this world and how Jesus Christ bought a new way of looking at this world we live in.
Love Dan
“For those who are happy then we are happy for you, but you don’t need to convince us. ”
Very fair, Cliff. I certainly respect your space to find your way.
Bruce, can you offer the same to us churchgoers? You’re working pretty hard to convince us.
Connie said: Some of you may be already on the far shore, sailing on without your boat (organized religion), and the others of us are still in the boat (organized religion) on our way to self-realization]:
I love that quote. Not sure yet what I believe about reincarnation but I’ve often thought that there are some travellers on this earth that are old souls who live this life with a wisdom that could have only came from many lifetimes of lessons. Who knows?
I agree completely, Redlefty. You should do whatever you feel you need to do. I’m not out to “fix” anybody. We all must find our own way, in our own style. But, at the same time, if I see someone about to be bitten by a viper, is it not fair to warn them?
The viper is sneaky, and tricky. Full of deceit and cunning. Beware. It will bite you when you least expect it.
Bruce………
The Viper is Life…………and it bites us all. Its called learning. I have met the same level of deception outside the church as I have inside the church. In both cases their were ones who knew they were doing it and ones who didnt. Life is Life……………………Lol wasnt that a song
Still, I try to avoid as many vipers as possible. Life is somehow better that way! But, to each his own.
This is an issue that is very important to me right now. I used to be a big time church goer: I went to two different services and church youth group. However, over the last few years I find myself feeling more alienated. After I move out of my parent’s home in the fall I won’t be attending a church for awhile. I don’t know if this will be a permanent change or not.
My main reason for wanting to leave organized religion at least for now is really to clear my mind. I’m tired of wandering whether I “believe” things the right way. Last weekend I was looking at a link to an ex-Mormon site that was brought up in light of the fundamentalist cult that was investigated in TX. I’m not critizing or praising the Mormon faith. However I found something quite interesting. The webmaster of the ex-Mormon site posted hundreds of e-mails from Mormons. Those letters are written in the exact same way many evangelical Christians write or talk to those who have left their faith. The only difference is that the Mormon letters warned about not following Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon instead of common Christian doctrines.
How can anybody be truly secure under that system? I still have a hard time dealing with that kind of fear myself. I don’t know where I’ll be in my spirtual path next year but I need to let go of that fear based religious spirit regardless of what name it takes whether it be Evangelical Christianity, Mormonism, Islam, etc. I wish all of ya’ll the best regardless of what church you attend or don’t attend.:)
Kiara,
Trust what your heart is telling you because that’s where your Loving Father IS. Believe that He will love you at all times regardless of your performance and you will begin to feel a peace that can not be described by words. It takes time to really trust Him that way because we have been so indoctinated to think His love is based on US, but that is the great lie. He is far, far, above our petty insecurities. His love is constant and true and will never let you down.
In the early days of the Church (the body of believers in Jesus) people gathered together in simple meetings where Jesus was praised and worshipped. They sang songs and people stood up and talked about Jesus and their belief in Him as the Son of God. But organized religion called “Church” is not the same today as in the early days. It began I suppose in the 300’s A.D. when the Church became organized, ruled over the state and began to force itself on people. The “Church” then began its long journey into apostasy. Today people are brainwashed to believe it is the Church — with all its rituals and laws — that holds the keys to salvation. And people willingly submit themselves to the religious system which tells them how to live their lives to be “right with God.”
There is nothing wrong in fellowshipping with other believers, and if two or three people meet to study the Scriptures, praise the Lord, sing songs together, and proclaim Truth in an atmosphere of freedom, then that is a part of “The Church” meeting together. Jesus said it only takes two or three gathered, and He is in the midst. Jesus is certainly not opposed to our meeting together; He desires it. We who are alienated from the organized denominations — even us Inclusionists — still gather together at our conferences, oftentimes travelling long distances to attend them, because we want to be with those who are like-minded. Those meetiings have become “church” to many of us. Many of us, who yearn for gathering together, but are isolated from other believers, use the Internet with its forums and blogs like this one to gather together. “Church” is still a part of us. It is the form, however, that has changed and continues to change.
It is not gathering together that is wrong. Gathering together is GOOD. What is wrong is false legalistic religion, which the organized, hierarchical churches are full of. God is in the process of judging them, and that is why so many are leaving.
Mary, What I like about Boldgrace is that we gather together even when we are not of like mind. You are right, that freedom is the key to any type of gathering in His name. You will notice on this site that most if not all of our criticism targets organized religion, especially where freedom is not allowed. Thankyou for the points you have made.