Bold Grace Plus Nothing!
In a recent comment Bruce said:
It wasn’t until I found this group of friends at boldgrace that I finally found true community. Even with the great distances between us, there is more love, friendship, compassion, and community than I’ve ever seen in any traditional church. The reason? We have no leaders, and have no need for any leaders. We’re simply a bunch of friends on a journey together, enjoying God’s peace and grace. No agendas, no power struggles, no funds to collect, no building to pay for, no need to build community (because it just “happened”). It’s not to say we’re without our challenges and pains, but they seem to be rare. This is probably the only true community of which I’ve ever been a part.
I feel the same exact way and I know Geo, Steve, and Mindy would also agree. As I thought about what Bruce wrote it made me realize the reality of his last statement in my life also. He said: "This is probably the only true community of which I’ve ever been a part."
So, what is it that makes our friendship so special? I can only answer for myself but I believe that the very root of the answer is found in NOTHING. By that I mean each of us came to this understanding of God’s very BOLD grace by ourselves as individuals and when we came together as a "COMMUNITY" here at boldgrace.com we did not bring anything else with it. Bold Grace by its self plus nothing is our secret and I believe it is the great secret that makes the Gospel good news indeed.
Does that mean that we don’t share ideas that can improve our lives in the here and now? Of course not. We often share and talk about different books we are reading and how new things we are learning help us understand this life more clearly. We also love hearing all the different comments that encourage us to keep this site open. As Bruce said, we have No agendas, no power struggles, no funds to collect, no building to pay for, no need to build community (because it just “happened”). We are only here to share this unbelievable peace that is a direct result of realizing this BOLD GRACE.
Some may wonder why we so strongly reject adding anything to it and the reason is simple. It is God himself who gives us the answer:
2 Cor 12:9 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."
Grace has taught me to accept myself the way God accepts me. Grace has taught me to accept Bruce, Geo, Steve, Mindy, and everyone else exactly the way they are because it is GOD who takes our weaknesses and shows us His PERFECT POWER in spite of them.
Yes, we do believe we are perfect because we believe His Grace really does have POWER. He doesn’t need us to do something or believe something for His Grace to Work. Who ever comes to our site will not be asked to change anything in their life. We will tell them they have always been loved, are loved now, and will always be loved by a God who truly loves without conditions.
The amazing thing is that when people really get this message of Bold Grace it does have a powerful effect on their lives. The security of an indestructible love has more power than all of man’s greatest wisdom. Just knowing that God will never leave you, never forsake you, never abandon you, and that He will be standing by you even in your weakest of moments is a knowledge that is our greatest resource here on earth. This LOVE from God comes without judgment or criticism. This LOVE comes with freedom to choose our own way. We can choose a painful life of striving to be good enough or we can choose a peaceful life by believing in this Bold Grace, but either way God will STAND with us.
Bold Grace plus nothing is the secret to true community. God made us all in His image and I am so glad that my eyes can see the beauty of that image in myself and in the world around me.
Rom 8:38-39 I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love which Christ Jesus our Lord shows us. We can’t be separated by death or life, by angels or rulers, by anything in the present or anything in the future, by forces or powers in the world above or in the world below, or by anything else in creation.
I think I have commented in the past on this blog. However, I just want to introduce myself. I really think this web-site is awesome and I agree with this Bold Grace message.
Here is another nugget of truth from the Bible that maybe you can look into further or comment on. Others may already have commented in the past, but it is something that I just discovered.
It is a scripture that refutes the idea of “Hell” and propagates the idea of the salvation of all mankind.
Here is the scripture that scares many from Mark Chapter 9.
42″And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where
” ‘their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’ 49Everyone will be salted with fire.
50″Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other.”
Jesus here is referring to Isaiah Ch 66. Here is Isaiah 66.
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. 24 “And they(all Mankind) will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
I said all that to say this–Isn’t “all mankind” looking upon the dead bodies? How can “all mankind” be the looker and the subject of the looker at the same time?
Also, concerning the scripture in Mark, Isn’t Jesus really saying that salvation through our own effort (eyes, feet and hands) is unattainable because salvation is only given through Grace as like a child.
L Cope, You have made some wonderful points and if more people would dig into the real meaning behind Jesus’s teachings they would find His universal love for ALL. Thanks for the comment.
Most of us have experienced the bonds of religion. Some of us have experienced being good and bad through our childhood…you are good if you do what you are told and bad if you don’t which is why it is hard to trust and be guided by our own hearts or innerself. When you have experienced this or was raised this way, you find yourself feeling strong emotions of badness when you do something you were taught was wrong, or you feel good when you do what you learned was right even if now you don’t agree that it’s bad or good.
We as humans need to grow beyond what we learn and take ownership of our freedom. We are human beings with the right to be free. To label ourselves good or bad is to think too small. We are decision-makers and every moment provides us the opportunity to move in the direction of our higher selves.
In the end, only I know the difference. I Know that I am not good or bad, I am simply me and I am blessed to have the people here at Boldgrace. All of you are outlets for soo many wonderful opportunities. Being with people that will truly accept you for who you are is rare and when we find it we don’t want to let go of it. People who don’t feel like they have to try and understand you are the people that we don’t want to let go of. People who know that we will do the same for them are the people that won’t let go of us.
The title of this post made me chuckle. Guess I may be a little shallow, but when I read it, I immediately thought back to one of the classic Seinfeld episodes when Jerry and George were planning their presentation to the big wheels at NBC, trying to sell them on the idea of making a show about “Nothing.” If you’ve seen it, you know what I’m talking about. If not, then never mind!
In reading through your post, it sounds like you have indeed found something very beautiful. “A bunch of friends on a journey together, enjoying God’s peace and grace.” May God continue to bless you all!
The security of an indestructible love has more power than all of man’s greatest wisdom.
That’s beautiful, Cliff! I alluded to that in one of my many verbose, even boring, comments. People flock to religion and religious organizations because they think it will deliver the “security” they so desperately seek. The “official” status of the organization validates their beliefs and convinces them that they indeed possess the truth. We all want to be right, but if Jesus WAS the Christ, it really doesn’t matter if we’re right or not. But it is certainly easier to trust in the tangible church that we can physically take part in, than it is to trust in a God who only exists in our imagination (unless we know the secret – that He is IN us and all AROUND us).
Connie, I loved that show and I did see that episode. Now I can’t look at my own post title without laughing. LOL
Boldgrace has been a place of love and peace all here I feel so at peace with you have encourage my heart and mind to life has it comes.
Love to all Dan
Dan, you are a gem among gems. Love ya, bro! I hope so much that we finally get a chance to meet some day!
Ditto for me Dan.
having moved on from the literalization of the scriptures and into the expirence of grace as a state of mind and heart towards others, having the fully human capacity to expend grace is quite a revealation, this plus nothing and I mean plus nothing, not the doctrines of a divine rescue and/or a theistic Godman with some divine plan to “save” humanity from angry God, no, none of this distraction, just grace, having your life established by it and for it.
This is Jesus for the non religious, a new Christianity for a new world.
Don
That was beautiful, Don!
Don, You spoke my heart as clear as if I said it myself.
Bruce, I do appreciate your comment on my site about having a BoldGrace Faith – and I have thought about it for a few days (chewed on the concept and let it mill about in my head). I have come to a conclusion concerning it…which I think is a nice one.
Your view of this faith was a journey that evolved over time – and now you have reached this pinnacle – which is about God’s love and our gratitude – which seems like the best revelation/spiritual enlightnment one could recieve. I actually think your view is commendable and truly fulfills the idea ‘Love God and love your neighbor as yourself’ – since love is the command/intent in all things.
However, it cannot be recieved without a real trial and testing. I think it would pre-mature to put an idea like this in someone’s head without the real background to handle the extent of it’s freedoms (which is free indeed).
For example, I think telling this to people in jail as their counselor would not be the wisest step – since they are not in the place in their own lives to realize the extent of the teaching – they also lack the responsibility to enact it effectively. I think this is why people raise this issue of concern with the doctrine more or less.
However, that does not mean they cannot some to this point of faith either – but it will take a struggle on the road of faith (seeing all aspects and realizing what does and doesn’t make sense). I have noticed this teaching on faith works awesomely with people of a knowledgeable background in the faith and it’s various doctrines (people that are seking something more meaningful in a rules based faith) – and found a good majority of it ‘wanting’. These people seem to ‘get it’.
Point being, maybe this is a matter of growth in the Christian faith? Like Paul’s idea of moving from baby food to meat – we grow in what we learn and like a child it takes a while to grow/mature. I actually admire the idea that love and grace is the only focus we will ever need – I actually tend to think that is spot on. Again, I have a fairly good background in the scriptures and spent many years in the church (and out of it thinking about it’s impact). The idea all we need is God’s faith (faith in us) is a great way to view it all in my opinion – but I admit – it takes time to grasp.
I am wondering, if Gods love comes without judgement, dose that mean that God dosent judge?
The spirit of grace doesn’t view judgement so negatively, infact one moving in this spirit of grace just might be fortunate enough to love so wastefully others would think you insane.
Don
God doesnt need to Judge, he set up a system that does it for us. Just remember the feeling you get when you lie, steal or something else that isnt so nice. Your whole body feels it. And it aint so nice.
Nice, Don! You have a wonderful way with words, and so clearly make the point!
John, I am in your camp on this one. I believe this earth was set up to be a training ground for us. We will experience the highs and lows of the flesh, and we will learn from it. I’m not sure what we’ll do with all we’ve learned, but I think there is a reason for it all.
Doug, human-kind as long been deceived into thinking that it needed to be punished. I think God gave us what we wanted (notice I didn’t say that He gave us what we deserved) when He placed all of His judgment onto the Christ (Himself) on the Cross. He emptied all His wrath onto himself for all to see. I imagine Him saying “you want judgment? I’ll give you judgment, and I will aim all of my wrath at the earth! You think you should die for me? Well, top this you knuckleheads… I will die for you!” After that, how can we think for a moment that God is angry at us? How can we believe that He could forsake us for failing Him? We failed Him completely before the Cross, and in His great Mercy, He placed Himself below us. He died for us. There is no greater thing a man can do for His friends than to die for them! How great a love is that?
Jesus heard a great sound from the sky, and said “the time of judgment is upon us, and if I be lifted up, I will draw all (judgment) to myself.”
Now if that isn’t good news, I don’t know what is! We wanted judgment, and He gave it… but He also took it! He gave us what we wanted, and revealed to us the truth of His love, and the depths of His grace!
In one fell swoop, He freed our minds to see the completeness of His love, and permit us all to experience liberty from the fear, doubt, guilt, and shame that religion had heaped upon us. He who is free in Christ is free indeed! Sadly not many know that the message of the Cross is one of freedom. The church thinks Jesus came to start a new religion with its rules, requirements, obligations, expectations, and rituals… but in reality He came to set us free from all that!
Glory and Thanks to God!
societyvs wrote:
“I think it would pre-mature to put an idea like this in someone’s head without the real background to handle the extent of it’s freedoms (which is free indeed).
For example, I think telling this to people in jail as their counselor would not be the wisest step – since they are not in the place in their own lives to realize the extent of the teaching – they also lack the responsibility to enact it effectively. I think this is why people raise this issue of concern with the doctrine more or less.”
Hi societyvs
I’ve actually been thinking the opposite! I think if this BoldGrace were true and this idea widely accepted and shared – these very same jails could possibly be emptied. Fear breeds fear. Love breeds love.
(Mind you – this is coming from someone who is not brave enough to talk to anyone about this BoldGrace idea except on the internet!)
Julia
sometimes freedom breeds abuse of said freedom, ofcourse then one must realize that kind of response is just another expression of bondage, which in turn is no freedom at all.
When one embraces and is embraced by true freedom, without religious doctrines that try to impart freedom(even and especially grace doctrines), one is free to love without fear, self is living fully without the thought of self.
This is my Christianity, living fully, as a “little” Christ,
Don
also thanks Bruce & Cliff for you words of encouragment, loved what you had to say John T, although I don’t see things as some “set up system” by a supposed theistic being out there somewhere, we do, as humanity, reap what we sow, and that I suppose is perhaps why the spirit of grace is so sweet and refreshing.
societyvs wrote:
“I think it would pre-mature to put an idea like this in someone’s head without the real background to handle the extent of it’s freedoms (which is free indeed).
Societyvs,
What would you do then?
Because the doctrine that the church has taught for as long as I remember has no power to set these captive free. Why not tell them of the true Gospel that Paul preached? The Guilt, fear and condemnation that has been taught in the past has not emptied the prisons in the least. So why not give it ALL to them and let God sort it out?
Peace
Geo
Julia said:
(Mind you – this is coming from someone who is not brave enough to talk to anyone about this BoldGrace idea except on the Internet!)
Don’t feel bad that the only place you feel comfortable to share this message is on the Internet. Just the fact that you are seeing this grace in your own life is so vital that whether you ever share it with others or not is not the issue. Just the fact that you are experiencing it in your own life is enough in itself. When and if the time comes that you can share it with others, you will know when the time is right. In the meantime, just enjoy simply knowing you are free from the bondage and fear you used to experience because of the wrong message that is preached out there. I am in much the same place as you are as far as sharing it, but rejoice in the freedom I have found in His Grace and love. No more bondage, no more fear……I am truly free.
“What would you do then?” (Geo)
This is interesting to say the least – I have many friends who have been convicts or are still on that path – and it ain’t because of any form of religion they are choose to self-destruct.
I think the point is to reach them where they are at. I have a friend that is a now a Muslim – he converted in jail…prior to that he spent his teenage years and adult life in and out of institutions. What brought him to any sort of faith was a fear of death (he almost died) and the need to find something better than his current set of beliefs.
He became a Muslim and what stuck with him – and I would say turned his life around 180 – is the amount of structure he was given to follow. I would also say the same for myself as teenager at 17 – I lacked something to make me disciplined (having no good form of it as a child or youth). These were starting points more or less.
Now I am a place where faith is more about how I want to live and enact it – and not so much about the discipline/rules system – those things helped to guide me to further understanding. I would say the same for my friend (the Muslim) – and in due time he will also continue to latch onto peace, love, equality, and kindness (the things we lacked the most as children). Eventually we graduate to consider the idea of a grace so strong it cannot be broken.
The reason it is not wise to deliver this message to convicts (I generalize of course) is that they cannot recieve it. They didn’t get there because of their discipline in life – they got there because of their lack of it. How can we expect someone with no discipline to accept an idea about grace that is so freeing – but also without a definitive set rules for building discipline. I don’t think we can…and they need to go through the process like the rest of us…as much as we dislike the rules based thing – for some – it is very neccesary (if for the sake of developing their life and moralities).
I would meet them where they are at – and that requires they look into a more disciplined life – whether that is for addictions or emotional problems that cannot be placed correctly. Although I like Bruce’s faith path – I am not sure all can recieve it without the background or some sort of background in the rules of the system.
Julia I like you most share only on the internet.But I was just thinking about this today how I long for the day when I can share this gospel with everyone especailly with all in my family.
I was listing to radio sports show and they were talking about what one thing would you like to do in life that you haven’t done one said he would like to get a hole in one in golf and I forgot what the others said but it made me think of what I like to do in my life and I would truly like to share this gospel of love and grace to many people.I pray that it come true someday.
Love Dan
Firstly, thanks for your understanding and encouragement, Roy and Dan.
Secondly, I appreciate your well thought out answer, SocietyVs. It does make sense to me what you are saying.
Most everyone is addicted to something. Some are addicted to destructive behaviors. Some are addicted to pain. Some are addicted to apathy. We permit ourselves to become addicted because we desperately want to fill the emptiness inside, that discontent that eats away at our “hope” until we feel we have no other recourse than to fill it with anything we can find. Whether it is crime, drugs, sex, hate, or whatever we think will satisfy… we cling to those behaviors for comfort. Then, some day, we realize that we no longer cling to the behavior, but it clings to us! It becomes an addiction. We feel like we can’t live without it, and begins to control every aspect of our lives. It becomes our life, and we become it.
I am convinced that the power of the gospel of grace and peace is the cure for our addictions. Freedom is not an opportunity to indulge, it is an opportunity to break the bonds of addiction. It gives us a chance to honestly look at ourselves and our situations, we can see (often, for the first time in our lives), who we really are, and where we really live. Religion doesn’t offer hope for the addict, it only trades one addiction for another. “Discipline” is not the cure for addictions, it is only another addiction for which the old one is traded. And it can be just as insidious and destructive as the addiction it replaced.
I am also convinced that coming to a real understanding of God’s incredible, relentless Love is the most powerful life-changing event that can happen in someone’s existence. When one begins to realize that the Creator, who left a piece of Himself inside of each of us, loves us without condition, requirement, or expectation… a “contentment” sets into our hearts, and the hunger (doubt, fear, worry, shame) inside begins to lessen. The more we realize who the Father is, and how He sees us as His perfect creation, the less our inner hunger becomes. And the more our hungers lessen, the more satisfied we become. And the more satisfied we become, the more our contentment grows. It’s a “good” cycle of increasing peace.
The cure (heaven) is very near, my friends. It is in us, and all around us. But, traditional religion has mounted a veil between us and our ability to realize God. Religion tells us that God is out there “somewhere” and only through vigilant effort can we even have a chance at connecting with Him. They tell us we need to suffer, struggle, and strive to seek God. They hang God out there like a carrot in a stick, knowing that we will keep going in whatever direction they carry that stick. They know that we will do whatever they want, just for a chance at getting closer to that stick… not knowing that they will always keep it just out of our reach. It’s about control and manipulation, and because of it, they have placed generations upon generations of their followers into a sickness of despair and hopelessness.
I read a research article once about serious criminals (I wish I still had the statistics, but I don’t) that stated a high percentage (I think it was around 80%) of those prisoners were taught to fear God, and had grown into a very negative view of God as an angry task-master… a demanding disciplinarian, ready and willing to punish and torment people who don’t measure up to His lofty expectations and requirements (all my paraphrasing).
Driving people into hopelessness through burdensome religion is not the answer for a better civilization, it is a recipe for death and destruction. Freeing people’s minds from the “angry, vengeful God” is the answer. Sure, religious indoctrination is not easy to overcome, but we owe it to every individual on earth to share the news… “God is not angry with you”! That’s all they need to know. Let it work on them. Plant the seed, and let time take its course. It can take a while to deprogram the mind, and detoxify from religious indoctrination. And remember, it’s not your job to change someone’s mind. God will take care of that. Just express your love, and wait. There is no need to debate, argue, or even discuss, just tell them what you believe, and when questioned, just say “when the time is right, you will realize what I have said is true.”
Plant the seed, and let God water and warm the soil.
Bruce
Im just wondering, do you think that when we die, all of our addictions and fears leave us? Do you believe that our physical death ends our problems?
I tend to believe that once we truly realize the overwhelming and deeply satisfying magnificence of the perfect love of God, we have no need of anything else. It can certainly happen in this lifetime, but surely when we are reunited with the Source of our spirit, we will have no doubt. In that incredible peace, all fear will vanish. All hungers and cravings will vanish. All pain will cease.
But, that’s just me. What do I know?
When we die, I have come to the conclusion, that we go back to that state we were before we were born(conceived), if any here have recollection of this time please fill us in
Don