Clarity of Thought!
A few years back I worshiped with some Quakers for about three years and I would often hear them use the word "Clarity" when they were pondering something that was bothering them. I think that is a very good word and one of the things Jesus came to do was to bring clarity to our minds.
The first thing He did to accomplish this for us was to rescue us from a system that had our minds full of turmoil. That system was the LAW. The LAW consisted of the Ten Commandments plus approximately 630 other laws that had been handed down to the Israelites through the years. The turmoil in our minds comes as a result of desire to live up to God’s standard of righteousness without the ability to do so. Listen to the following scriptures:
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.Gal 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
As you can see from the scriptures above it is impossible for any of us to live up to the law demands and therein lies our great problem when it comes to being right with God based on our performance.
Now unfortunately the organized church of today still does not get this because they continue to preach a gospel that is a mixture of law and grace. If the Law that God provided could not make us righteous what makes the church think they can do a better job of coming up with another standard for correct performance? Paul also tells us that there is no law that can make us right. Listen:
Gal 3:21-22 For if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
When Paul says "a law" he is clearly saying that there can be NO standard of human performance that will ever make one right with God. He goes on to say that we were all failures when it came to our performance but the promise God made to redeem all of mankind came about because of the FAITH OF JESUS. Yes, it is given to them that believe and thanks be to God one more time because he will not leave any of us in unbelief. Paul tell us his own conversion came about because of his unbleif……..listen again to Paul’s account:
1 Tim 1:12-17 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners — of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
The grace of the Lord was POURED OUT on Paul abundantly along with the FAITH AND LOVE that are in CHRIST JESUS. Paul was converted out of UNBELIEF and was GIVEN faith and love. And the best thing is he says this conversion was given as an example for ALL that will eventually believe in the awesome Lord.
Now let’s get back to the CLARITY issue for a minute. Why do church folk have such a hard time understanding this very BOLD GRACE? I believe Paul again gives us the answer:
2 Cor 3:13-18 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Turn on your televisions on Sunday morning or go to almost any local church and you will hear the LAW preached. And where you hear the law preached you will find DULL minds. And how does one get away from this DULL mind? Turn to the LORD of Bold Grace. You will find freedom. Your vision of others will become clear. You will see the image of God everywhere. You will see his Glory more and more even in the worst of circumstances and this glorious vision of a FAITHFUL GOD will transform you more and more from the inside out.
Are you seeking CLARITY OF THOUGHT? Give up your quest to be righteous by your own beliefs and performance and be awakened to this loving God who has always loved you, loves you now, and will never abandon you regardless of how bad you think you are. Allow me to leave you with one last scripture because I know there are many out there that have their minds full of turmoil (self condemnation) because of what they are hearing preached every Sunday.
1 John 3:18 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
Peace to All Who Will Understand,
Cliff
Hi, Cliff! It is a beautiful thing when we finally understand that God is with us, not to condemn us, but to lift us up. I can remember a time in my life when I would dwell on the past, trying to understand it and get “clarity” about where I may have gone wrong and what I might have done to cause some of the devastating things that were hitting me. I thought if I could just figure it all out, I could avoid the “mistakes” in the future. My heart was condemning me. I finally realized that I would never be able to understand it all, in other words, never get “clarity” that way. Clarity for me came in realizing that it really didn’t matter what I had done, whether I had made good decisions or not, God is always present and will work it all out for me. It doesn’t really matter what I do. What matters is that He is there. Recognizing that had made all the difference.
I think you have more “clarity” than you think, Connie. But let me ask you this… how can you be SURE you are escaping the hell your church teaches? Is it because of Christ? Or is it because of what YOU believe about Christ? If it is what you believe about Christ, can you trust yourself to believe completely enough? Perfectly enough? Correctly enough?
You see, that is the point of this “perfect” grace of God. It does not rely on our participation. We don’t have to believe it (we can never be sure what we believe anyway, and then when we think we’re sure, we change our minds about it), we don’t have to accept it, we don’t have to agree with it, or subscribe to it. If we don’t all fall under it (no matter what we believe), then none of us have any assurance of redemption.
Like Geo often says, “if our salvation is up to us, and what we believe about God, doesn’t that make us Lord?”
The message of God’s love of His creation has never been more clear to me. This is especially true now that I don’t have to count on myself (and my actions, beliefs, thoughts, behaviors, etc.) to be a participant in His love.
Amen cliff.I understand.That’s why i have peace.
God bless bro
That was great–I mean GREAT!
Thank YOU!
Connie said: “Clarity for me came in realizing that it really didn’t matter what I had done, whether I had made good decisions or not, God is always present and will work it all out for me.”
Indeed, in that statement is where true peace is found not only for ourselves but even how we feel about others.
Hey Kenneth, good to hear from you.
Bruce, Thanks for always adding more clarity.
L Cope, Thanks for the nice comment and I hope that the peace that comes from understandidng bold grace is filling your heart.
Bruce, I have never actually heard the doctrine of “hell” taught at my church. I did hear about it at churches I attended growing up. And I was taught that there were certain things you had to do to escape it. And we were urged to “convert” people if they didn’t have the “correct” understanding to keep them from going to hell. I left that way of thinking a long time ago - in my mid-twenties (I am now 55). It was a real paradigm shift for me to come to a more ecumenical rather than sectarian view of what Jesus meant by “church.” It has also given me a sense of peace and a freedom that has grown with the years.
As to whether I will ever make the shift to what you guys term “Bold grace”, I don’t know. I curently believe that God is available to anyone who is interested in a relationship with Him. Not that He is just available, but that He is actually pursuing a relationship with each of us, in different ways at different times. I still think that we have the right to refuse that, though, that He will not force a relationship or gift that we do not want. I do not believe in the doctrine of hell as I was taught it growing up. Rather, I believe that for those who continually refuse relationship with Him, there will be total annhilation at death. They will just cease to exist because there is no promise of immortality apart from a relationship with God.
Thanks for letting me listen in on your “conversations” and for your patience in your responses to me!
Connie God’s love and grace I believe will not fail anyone even those who total reject Him. I believe when Paul said in 1 Corth.13 that His love will always win no matter what and in Rom 8 Paul said what will seperate us for the love of God nothing.
Connie thank you for coming to Bold Grace and you are totally welcome anytime.
Love in Christ Dan
Cliff
I guess if you truly believed what you wrote you would have a different view of the church and the people in it.
“Turn to the LORD of Bold Grace. You will find freedom. Your vision of others will become clear. You will see the image of God everywhere. You will see his Glory more and more even in the worst of circumstances and this glorious vision of a FAITHFUL GOD will transform you more and more from the inside out.”(Cliff)
There is a wonderful OLD saying ………….Practice what you Preach.
John T…..Do you disagree with the statement you quoted? And what has my practicing of anything have to do with a God who grants unto all of us his boldest of Grace? Agreeing with someone or not agreeing has nothing to do with the image they were created in. I don’t agree with the life of a serial killer but I can still recognize the glory of God within him. That is the power of BOLD GRACE, not mine, but God’s.
There is a wonderful OLD saying ………….Practice what you Preach.(John T.)
The fact that you wrote this proves you do not understand Bold Grace at all!
Peace
Geo
“Seek and You Will Find”
Geo
Youre right.
Geez, John… what’s with the mind games? Do you need to somehow prove the superiority of your thought processes? I feel like you have a problem with the concept of complete grace, or one or more of us, or maybe just life itself. What’s bugging you? Why don’t you just lay it out there?
Like I’ve said before, we’re just a bunch of knuckleheads, trying to share the things we’ve experienced… things that changed our lives so drastically, we have to shout it out! We can’t help it, if we don’t, it will bubble up from within anyway. We have nothing to prove. We have no answers. We push people toward nothing, but instead attempt to pull them from the chains that hold them back from experiencing the peace which flows from a new understanding of God. Our desire is to help others move into a newness of thinking that each of us encountered unexpectedly. My hope for you is that you might begin to boldly experience a grace so complete and so full, that it overwhelms every fiber of your being, and brings you peace down to the essence of our soul. And I really don’t care if that peace comes from the Cross, or Buddha, or Mohamed, or Hindu, or Humanism, or the devil… I just hope it comes to you in real terms that bring you relief.
I (and we all, I’m sure) wish the best for you, and desire for you great happiness and abundance of Life!
If you don’t understand this Bold Grace John, ok…so you don’t get it, but why the mind games? This site is about BOLD GRACE. It is here for you only if you want it. Do you really want it? Do you really want to try and understand it or are you here simply to prove something. Because you certainly do not need to prove anything here.
Peace
Connie: I still think that we have the right to refuse that, though, that He will not force a relationship or gift that we do not want.
I disagree. It seems like we have that right; but I don’t believe we do.
Elsewhere in Romans, Paul wrote that God grants belief to some, while hardening the hearts of others. Another verse says that God locks people up in stubbornness (other translations say “disobedience” or “unbelief”) in order to show them mercy. There are many verses in the Bible that state, in no uncertain terms, that God is in charge, that God does the choosing. I think to say that man has free will is to reject God’s sovereignty, because free will = “My will be done”, rather than “God’s will be done”.
There are also verses in the Bible where it is clear that man is given the choice. To choose to do God’s will or not. TO choose the narrow way or the broad way. To submit or not to submit. We aren’t programmed like robots. Even Jesus, in the Garden of Gethsemane, prayed, “Not my will, but thine….”, indicating there was choice involved.
Good points, Connie… which reminds me - have you chosen to do God’s will? Have you chosen the narrow way? Have you submitted?
Of course, once you answer those questions, you can probably imagine what my next question will be…
How can you be sure? How can you trust something YOU have done in order to win God’s heart? How can you know for sure that you have done it thoroughly enough, correctly enough, and completely enough? How? How? How?
Do you really trust yourself that much?
We aren’t programmed like robots.
I never said that. In the Bible, we are compared to clay, with God/Jesus as our potter.
(The rest of Romans 9 is worth reading, too.)
Even Jesus, in the Garden of Gethsemane, prayed, “Not my will, but thine….”, indicating there was choice involved.
Again, I disagree. I see Jesus recognizing–once again–that what was about to happen to him (his arrest and eventual crucifixion) was preordained (Revelation 13:8 says that the plan for salvation was conceived “from the foundation of the world”). Recall that during his three years of ministry, Jesus constantly reminded people that he was put on Earth to do his Father’s will (redemption/salvation of all humanity); and he told his disciples exactly what was going to happen to him.
To believe in free will, as I see it, is to render God impotent. It’s kinda like giving him The Finger, saying to him “I know better than you do, so sod off!” That is wrong.
I also believe that if one is consummed by Christ’s love that they won’t have to “choose” to do his will; doing his will is already part of who they are.
“Clay, Not Robots”
http://www.martinzender.com/Zenderature/clay.htm
Again God opens the hearts and minds to His wonderful truth. Shelly my heart was fulled with joy when I read your words and martin zender.
I again thank the Lord for Bold Grace I believe that it is the loving hand of God molding the clay of our hearts.
Love Dan
Shelly, Wonderful answer. Thanks.
The analogy of clay in the Potter’s hand is a beautiful one. I agree that it is what each human being is meant to be. But, when I look around me, I see people who seem to have chosen otherwise. Do you think that those who murder and rape are simply being clay in the Potter’s hands?
Certainly if one is consumed by Christ’s love then he won’t have to “choose” to do God’s will; doing God’s will is already part of who he is, as Shelly said. But, I also see people who seem to think they know better than God, and do seem to “give him the finger.” It seems there are many people who are quite simply NOT consumed by Christ’s love and are clearly NOT choosing to do God’s will. While I do believe that God will ultimately work everything out for His purposes, I believe that He does not force any of us to be in relationship with Him.
Are we all stuck in the old tribal mentality that God is a “Him” still?
To follow God is to follow your heart, no matter your religion or nonreligion of choice, once I add even one doctrine to the formula I risk spoiling it all. Even when those doctrines come from “The Good Book”, especially so. To embrace these writings for anything beyond what they really are - an epic tribal story of the Jews, and to put them on status of infallible and inspired by the God who “lives in the sky”, does this not make an idol of said writings?
Clarity is a beautiful thing. I have found though sometimes I really need to “shake things up” in my mind and heart in order to move beyond my limited understanding of things. This shaking makes the broth pretty cloudy but when the simmering is done and I have skimmed off all the impurities(literally a culinary term) there is a clarity in the broth that the old stock just didn’t have.
John T keep on brother, sandpaper is needed to make the rough egdes smooth and you my friend are an 80 grade paper, my only advice is sometimes one only needs a 140 grade to get the right smoothness, sometimes the 80 grade is just too rough.
Peace to you all,
Marco
Connie,
I understand what you are saying and I agree that God will not force anyone. He won’t have to because just like in Paul’s conversion once a person sees the full glory of God they can only do one thing and that is to bow down in utter praise of such a beautiful, loving God.
1 Tim 1:12-17
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners — of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Isa 45:23-25
23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will give praise. 24 They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength. ‘”All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame. 25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.
You see, God will not have to force anyone because even the worst of sinners once faced with the full glory of God will fall down and give praise voluntarily.
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
(1Co 15:20-24 NASB)
All rule and all authority is rooted in law of some form.
All will be made alive. Some take longer but it will happen. Boldgrace is abolishing all rule, all authority and all power….thank God.
“You see, God will not have to force anyone because even the worst of sinners once faced with the full glory of God will fall down and give praise voluntarily.” (from Cliff)
This clears up for me what you guys believe. You are saying that even though someone may live a life that doesn’t seem to be in line with God’s will (like Hitler), at the end transformation will take place when that person is standing in the presence of God. Guess I’m a little dense, but I think I finally get what you are saying now. It is quite a paradigm shift. It will take awhile for me to consider this.
Thanks for the explanation.
Connie, I sincerly believe that God’s wrath and his love are identical things. We need not fear because once we understand how awesome God’s love is for us we can relax knowing that eventually He will work out what we need to learn here on earth and once we see the glory of this journey we will look back on everything and understand. Below are some things I wrote about this a year ago.
Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
Now we know that God was revealing something from heaven that would stand against all the godlessness and wickedness of men but what was it? Was he going to bring down fire and brimstone? Was he going to turn all the wicked people into pillars of salt?
You see we have the advantage of knowing exactly what God was revealing from heaven that would be able to destroy all godlessness and wickedness of men. Paul had already given the answer in the previous two verses.
16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
As he says: “In the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed”. The righteousness from God that was revealed in the gospel is Jesus Christ himself. Jesus came to overpower godlessness and wickedness of men by forgiving all their sins. Where sin has gone grace has gone all the more. The LOVE of God and the WRATH of God are absolutely the very same thing. Yes, God loves us enough to destroy all the godlessness and wickedness that is in our lives but the way he accomplishes all of that is through the beauty of his glorious nature which is seen in the life of Jesus Christ. HE LOVES IT OUT OF US.
Abraham Lincoln once said: “The best way to destroy an enemy is to make them your friend.” That’s exactly what God has done with all of us and he demonstrates his plan in the gospel. This is why the apostle John said the following:
1 John 4:18-208 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 19We love because he first loved us.
God knew he could never bring us back to perfection through threat of punishment and yet so many preachers today are teaching the very opposite of what was revealed from heaven in the Gospel message. The gospel message is the only answer to our godlessness and wickedness and the answer is GRACE. There is a day for all of us when we will recognize this awesome love and on that day of awakening we will fall down on our knees in complete and total praise of this God of Love.
ah yes the gospel is very romantic indeed, symbolically speaking I am with you 100%, I tend to view the kingdom of God as only ever something that was/is never external, but one that is subjective to the individual(s)having the experience, objectively speaking we want so hard to find something to believe in, a parent God figure in the sky, in control and taking care of things(us), reigning terror (or love as is the case here) on our enemies(read old testament), having come to the realization that this is part of a dying theism, God language that no longer speaks to the people of this day, I abandon the old wine skins, they just won’t do any longer, I fill my new wine skins with the vision that Christ calls me into - a kingdom of the heart, this Jesus comes along and flips the religious institution on its head, so much so it has him crucified, the kingdom of God is within you he says to his friends and even his enemies.
In the spirit of it all we see this Christ person making no difference between male or female(so unlike the patriotic male God of the OT), Jew or Greek, gay or straight, black or white, but calls into a wholeness of self, challenging us to go so far with this as to be willing to give this self away.
Such a revolutionary this man was the hearers of his day knew nothing better than to wrap their theistic God language around him and years(decades) later following his crucifixion, all the while a developing tradition emerges over the following 50-100 years and results in the the gospels that were written, in fact some of Paul’s writings date earlier than the gospels, and is even evidenced by him making no reference to the virgin birth that came out of the developing tradition, simply speaking of Jesus as one born of a woman.
Humanity isn’t(wasn’t) so much in need of rescue from a “fallen state” as the old language speaks, but the need, as incomplete creatures, is to be called into wholeness, to be willing to step into a new humanity.
The “boldness of grace” is simply one avenue to walk in this new sense of being, to love others undeserved has transforming power to heal and restore that fellow soul, and since we are, metaphorically speaking, the body of Christ, this newness of life he calls us into, we have the capacity
to love and he loved, to give as he gave.
It was never about trying to gain right standing with the theistic God in the sky who has to punish Christ for our sins, that thinking is so bankrupt, but that was the language of the day, resulting in the developing tradition that begins in Matthew, the concern wasn’t to give historic record, the concern was to explain the God that was met, that was experienced, in this Jesus Christ, using the God language of the day.
I am rambling on now, I know I go against the grain, but I really think for Christianity to survive in this current world of ours we need to be willing to move forward in a bold new way, thanks for reading,
Peace to you all,
Marco
I would just like to add one other thing, please don’t think that I do not understand what it is that is being preached(shared) on this site, I came out of the evangelical church, after over 10 years, to be so powerfully impacted by the very message you all share here, I remember meetings with Mike Williams and weeping in his arms because of the words he spoke, I listened to Robert Rutherfords messages religiously and shared them with friends, Martin Zender was a fave, as were others, I preached and shared this good news with whom ever would listen, alot of whom were fellow church members many of whom just couldn’t embrace an understanding of God redeeming all mankind, it is not that I don’t understand it or have not be effected by it.
With careful study and consideration, the bible began to lose its status as infallible or divinly inspired(both old and new testaments) in my heart and mind, I knew I was stepping into a whole new journey, having kept the elements, the essense, of the spirit that is in the message close to my heart, moving forward wasn’t just an optional step, but a necessary one, I was able to. Much in the same way many of you can relate to when you moved on from “churchianity”, you knew you couldn’t just close your eyes to it and look away. Thanks again, also would like to mention I really appreciate the freedom here to share my heart and mind with you all,
Marco
Marco,
I do understand the journey you are on and share in much agreement with many of things you have said, and as my daughter Mindy has taught me, my heart is something to be trusted more then I every thought possible when I was ingrained in church philosophy. If you truly study the writings of the OT & NT and how they came into being it changes how you see everything. I do think God (the universe) has allowed this book (the bible) to be a great influence on mankind but I think we were also expected to use the glorious brain and heart that was given to us to sift out that which does not fit with a peaceful life. Thanks so much for sharing.
As a Christian, there is not one single solitary thing that I must ‘do’.
Nothing.
That statement just drives Evangelicals up the wall…but it is true.
Now that is ‘bold grace’.
Marco- I know whereof you speak, brother. I, too, am in that same place.
Steve- You speak the great truth.
Don,
You are a man that has heard the gospel. I mean, really ‘heard it’ !
As a christian there isn’t one single thing I have to do, the fantastical part about it is, is that it was never about having to do anything anyway, the whole tribal concept of gaining favor from the blood thirsty god in the sky with laws(put in place for the security and survival of the tribe - by the tribe and for the tribe) thus sacrificing lambs and placing sins on goats and sending them into the wilderness is ancient tribal Jewish (and other tribes sacrificed to the god in the sky) story, it is their experience, their mythology, their religion, their perception etc.
The world was flat and the earth was gods footstool. Hell resided inside the earth itself, so on and so forth.
My christian experience is to hear the spirit of the Christ calling me into a new humanity outside the boundaries and theistic imperialism of yesterdays religions/perceptions. A humanity that is free to live and love without prejudice,
Peace out,
Marco