Believe it or not!
A friend once asked me why it would benefit someone to believe in the gospel of Grace and Peace… and that why I think the story of God’s grace upon the world through His Son which brought an unheard-of peace to all humanity…. is true? The conversation went something like this;
Friend: If this gospel is true, and "sets people free", won’t it free people from the motivation to do good works?
Me: Motivation to do good works through fear? That’s a good thing?
Friend: Yes, whatever motivates people to good works is good, even if it’s "fear".
Me: Fear only motivates people to self protection. When "self" is the motivating factor, the works are tainted with our own filthy (Paul’s description) agendas.
Friend: What’s wrong with self-protection, especially if it motivates people to do good for others?
Me: It is "self"ish. Doing good for others because of selfishness is really only doing good for ourselves. Fear only motivates us to protect ourselves, even if it "looks" like we’re doing good for others. Until we can remove fear from our hearts, and live free to experience the best of self and others, will we truly do good for others.
Friend: I think I see what you mean.
Me: I’m not sure you really can. Until one has experienced that incredible freedom, even for a moment, it is probably impossible to comprehend.
Friend: How can you experience that freedom?
Me: It’s simple, really. Just let yourself believe that the Work of the Cross of Christ brought redemption, in one short instant, to all the world. Let yourself imagine that God, through the Cross of Christ, released His mercy and love to all the world, once and for all, whether you believe it or not! Let yourself soak in the wonder of His righteousness, which He placed on all humanity, including you… whether you believe it or not! Let yourself float in the assurance of God’s message of Forgiveness, that it is un-earnable, no matter what you do, but has been freely given to all, including you, whether you believe it or not!
Friend: I thought the Bible says that you must believe?
Me: You will never know what you truly believe until you give yourself permission to not believe. The problem is, you believe that God is generally displeased with you, and only through your actions (believing what you’ve been told you have to do to please God), can you "get right with God". Well, I say that’s a bunch of crap! It’s not up to you to get right with God… just give yourself permission to understand that God… got right with you! That’s what the Cross was all about, and that’s what will set your mind free!
Friend: But, if I am free from fearing God, won’t I do all kinds of bad stuff?
Me: Why would you even imagine that to be true? The gospel of grace and peace frees us from our fears, doubts, guilt, shame, and worry… so that we can truly be who we were meant to be! God didn’t create you to be "bad", but the pain that you let creep into you life causes you to dwell on hopelessness, suffering, and hurting are pushing you, manipulating you, and controlling you. It’s those things you are fighting against, and every time you are defeated in that fight, it adds to your pain. It’s those things that cause you to want to do "bad" things. When we are set free from our pain, we enter a Life of peace, and in that place, there is no need to hurt ourselves and others (do bad stuff). Love spills out of you into a world that responds to love, and in that exchange, good things happen!
Friend: So, pain causes us to do bad things?
Me: Not necessarily. But pain, along with worry, sorrow, hopelessness, and despair, certainly add to the "burdens" that rob us of life. And I’m not talking about physical pain, I’m speaking of the spiritual pain that runs deep in our souls… that longing for peace with God that seems so impossible, and so unreachable. Our culture has taught us that righteousness is a gift from God, but we need to do something to take possession of that gift… CRAP! NO WAY! In the spiritual sense, there is nothing we can do to receive the gift. It is in us, right now, and there is nothing you can do to get it, or to lose it. If you will allow yourself to think this way, it will change your life, whether you believe it or not!
Friend: I’m not sure I can think that way. I’ve been told all my life that I’m a sinner, and I need to get right with God. It seems like that will always plague me, and hold me in fear.
Me: Well so be it! You can live in fear all your life and miss out on some of its most spectacular aspects… but you’ll still be OK. Don’t worry about it. Maybe a fullness of Peace isn’t in the cards for you. Maybe you don’t really need it. Maybe you can suffer through with the nagging fear that God will, at some point, judge you "unworthy" of relationship. Maybe you will drive yourself crazy trying to gain God’s acceptance, and finally give up. That, my friend, is the best thing that will ever happen to you. Maybe then, you can finally realize His unconditional love for you, and begin to enter the Heavenlies and experience that "abundance" of life that you hear about.
Friend: But, I feel like I have an abundance of life now. Things are pretty good between God and me. Why should I change the way I think about God?
Me: Good point! If what you have is working for you… super! I’m not concerned about your etermal destiny, because I know you are included in God’s reconcilation of the world, whether you believe it or not, and whether you want it or not. I’m not worried for your future, but compassion drives me to be concerned about your "present". My heart’s desire is to see you wildly happy, and content beyond understanding.
Good conversation Bruce! When your friend said this,
“Why should I change the way I think about God”?
To me it displayed one of the flaws of “christian” thinking. The Gospel is not what we or how we think about God. The True Gospel is God’s view and opinion about us not our view and opinion of Him/Her! And what is that view and opinion? Reconciled,Righteous and Holy because we were all as a human race put into Jesus on the Cross according to the writings in Ephesians. If anyone who reads here at Bold Grace wants to understand this in more detail go listen to this weeks episode of Glenn Klein Online with Mike Williams. Go here http://www.glennkleinonline.com/webcast/guests/mwilliams.html and click on the July 9, 2008 show it was one of the best shows I have ever heard explaining the Gospel of Grace & Peace
Peace
Geo
Yes, it really doesn’t matter what we believe about God, all that matters is what God believes about us!
It’s too bad the church won’t preach this. They want you to bellieve that you control God by what you believe. You control what He thinks about you, and you control whether or not He will accept you. Wait a minute… if you control God, doesn’t that make YOU God?
I saw a church sign yesterday that said….
Jesus is coming!
Justice is coming!
If that’s true we are all in trouble but if He truly was wounded for OUR transgressions; if He was bruised for OUR iniquities; if the chastisement for OUR peace was upon Him then maybe we should all realize that by his stripes WE are all totally healed….once and for all.
People who still listen to the idea that “Justice is coming” will never find the peace of God that passes all understanding because they will never permit His perfect love for us all to cast out all of the fear that comes from all of this teaching about an angry vengeful God that is coming to judge the world and bring justice. “Justice”, the Just One, came and took our judgment upon Himself…..thank God so that we can live free of fear.
I see more people when it comes to what they truly believe deep down about God is different then what they say they believe.
Just the other day at work I took a card for a fellow work who had a son in law get shot and killed and almost everybody wrote may the love and peace of God be with her and her family without even asking what they believed.
Another thing there were people of many different believes that signed the card one was Jewish, Musium and christian and by the way the Jewish and Musium work close together in the same department.
I believe deep down inside every person is seed of God filled with love and grace and the outside infulence we are afraid of and change the way we see and act.But he more we truly see His love and grace like Paul did we become more free from fear.
Love Dan
Great Conversation Bruce. I wish I had had that conversation with someone 40 years ago, but as Opray says: When you know better, you do better.
Wait a minute… if you control God, doesn’t that make YOU God?
It does; and that ain’t right, IMO.
Shelly- Oh it’s right. However, we don’t control God. We’re all made of the same stuff. Once we figure out we’re not over here and God’s over there, we’ll all be much better off. I believe it was Paul who said, Christ in YOU, the hope of glory. It’s true, God is IN us, part of us.
Thanks for adding to the conversation, everyone! I loved your comments!
I spoke with the same friend last night, and this came up…
Friend: Do you think it’s wrong to believe that God will judge the wicked and condemn them to an eternity of separation from him?
Me: Yes, I do.
Friend: But, don’t you want justice for those who practice evil?
Me: But, haven’t you “practiced evil”? Be honest…
Friend: Yes, but I repented of that, and strive to no longer sin.
Me: Do you really?
Me: How is that working out for you? Be honest…
Friend: Well, I don’t measure up all the time, but most of the time, I do pretty well.
Me: So, your “measuring up” most of the time is going to buy you a ticket to heaven?
Me: Where does God draw the line, exactly, as to how much “measuring up” is enough? And how do you know you will reach that threshold?
Friend: Well, I just have to trust God!
Me: You mean, you just have to trust yourself? Aren’t you counting on your own abilities to be found pleasing to God?
Have to run for now… more later!
It’s true, God is IN us, part of us.
But we’re not God. He may reside in us, yes; but that doesn’t make us God.
If we are “one with God”, what does that make us?
When we marry it is said that we become “one” with our spouses. That does not mean we become them. God in me does not make me God. But then I suppose it depends on our perception of “who” or “what” God is too. I see Him as the Creator, omnipotent, omnipresent, almighty One Who sent His Son to redeem the entire human race. In that respect, although He lives in me, I can never be Him.
Good point, Roy. But as I think about it, becoming “one” with our spouse is based on a decision we’ve made. And unfortunately, it is possible, as a result of another decision, to “un-become” one with our spouse.
Not sure what that means in relation to God, but thought it was interesting.
Wondering also, if he made us “in his likeness”, what does that mean? Total likeness… physical… spiritual? Both, one or the other, or neither (something else)?
Maybe it could be thought of in terms of our physical parents. We are created in their likeness, but we are not them. They breathed life into us, and it remains with us, but we are not them. We might resemble them, and act like them, but we have also been given our own individual characteristics. Physically, we are a blend of our parents. But, it seems that, spiritually, we are entirely made of our Spirit Source.
I like how you say that Bruce - spiritually we are as much of God as one can possibly be, how much of that we can appreciate and express, I believe, evolves as we progressivly move forward. Not in doctrines, statements of faith and in creeds, but in the Life expirence itself, in the expression of our very humanity, this Christ expirence calls us into oneness, equality and loving wastefully towards all others.
As the body of Christ we are element. We are the hands and the feet of Christ to this world of ours. Not to try and convince them our doctrines are the right ones and theirs are the wrong ones(Hindu Muslim Catholic Islam Evangelical Mormon Budda Atheist etc..), or that we have some super special “secret” that they don’t, but to embrace and share in our humanity that is both beautiful and diverse. Its not about agreeing, its about Being.
I read something about sin the other day and it about knocked me off my feet, having moved on from theism, I realized thinking of sin as offence to the divine being in the sky was no longer cutting the mustard - that is part of a theology I can no longer perscribe to in this day and age.
This concept then moves forward, into the understanding that anything one does that diminshes the life, the being of another, is sin.
Simple, effective and causes me to consider much.
Grace to you all,
Marco
Bruce said:
“Maybe it could be thought of in terms of our physical parents. We are created in their likeness, but we are not them. They breathed life into us, and it remains with us, but we are not them. We might resemble them, and act like them, but we have also been given our own individual characteristics. Physically, we are a blend of our parents. But, it seems that, spiritually, we are entirely made of our Spirit Source.”
Well said Bruce!!
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
–Albert Einstein
Marco- I like what you said. I think you and I have shared similar journeys.
Bruce-You still amaze me with your perceptions. It was you who began my journey here in bloggyland. I still have copies of may of your posts fromseveral years ago. Thanks for making me use my brain to get to my heart….
Shelly- If God is ubiquitous, omnipotent, omnipresent, then where is God not? He is everywhere at all times, making up every atom, quark, lepton, etc; in the entire universe. He is not over there and we over here. There is nothing that is not Him. He is us. We are Him.
Marco said “Its not about agreeing, its about Being.”
That’s really what this is all about… helping people escape from the mindset that they need to agree on something to be able to get along with one another. I would love nothing more than to see people depart from traditional Christianity and allow themselves to embrace the God of profound love. My mission is one which targets traditional christians. And the goal of my heart is to help them see that there is a message in the story of Christ that far exceeds what they’ve learned in their traditional church settings. It is a simple message of pure, unconditional love… one which transcends all the requirement and obligation religious organizations teach. It is a picture of unimaginable inclusion and unity. And a story of sheer joy… truly good news to all who hear it!
Mindy, you will always have a special place in my heart.
Don, I appreciate you so much!
On with the story…
In the last installment:
Friend: Well, I just have to trust God!
Me: You mean, you just have to trust yourself? Aren’t you counting on your own abilities to be found pleasing to God?
(to continue)
Friend: No, I know that nothing I do or say will change God’s opinion of me.
Me: Is that a fact?
Friend: Yes, except maybe an outrageous sin. God cannot look upon someone who is in sin.
Me: Some “sins” are more outrageous than others? How do you make the distinction?
Friend: Well, sins like those the 10 Commandments addressed.
Me: OK, but didn’t Jesus talk about the 10 Commandments, and how they have a much deeper meaning than we supposed?
Friend: Yes, he did. And he painted a pretty gloomy picture about how no one can really uphold the Commandments.
Me: Why do you think he did that?
Friend: To prove to people that no one can be found righteous under the law.
Me: Yes, and why do you think he needed to prove that?
More later…
Well, I guess this subject got boring. Somebody, write something new!
OK, how about this food for thought…
the law was created by the Jews for the Jews, not so much perhaps for righteousness sake but in reality for the sake of tribal survival and distinction(from other tribes ofcourse).
Their perception of God happened to be a theistic one of a ruling male deity living in the sky with magical supernatural powers, whom of which related to them as the only chosen ones and all the rest as heathen(very disposable in accord with said ruling male deity), and of which found great satisfication/appeasement from the slaughter, the sacrifice of animals (and later a human) because gosh darn it thems sinful people and blood must be shed.
One thing I realized along this journey is that any God in need of defence and apologetics cannot be too big or truly grand. Certainly not worthy of praise. I then realized the day would come quickly when I would no longer need to apoligize for, or defend the tribal male God of the Jews who resided in the sky.
The very essense of life is God, from tribal deity to essense of Life. Living in the freedom that Christ calls us into, freedom from laws? Not really(they are just preceived), freedom to live so freely as to be able to give oneself away, even the fear of death loses its grip, survival mentality takes a back seat(gets thrown out the window) as others are considered and embraced above the self.
I’ve rambled on enough, thank you for your patience,
Marco
That was beautiful, Marco!
God does sometimes get LOST in religion, doesn’t he? And people wonder why I’m so negative about religion and religious people.
I hear you brother, what I am finding as I go along is the more someone is convinced of religious doctrines as absolute truth the less likely their mind and heart will be open to new discoveries and perception.
Life is like the ultimate adventure to the open hearted, free spirit of Christlikeness, religion can’t stand the free concept and radical nature this man calls us into, I sense I am only scratching the surface expirentially and look forward daily to the expression of Christ in others revealed, people I work with every day who do not go to church and might not even believe in God bless me with their Christlikeness on a regular basis, sometimes I draw it out perhaps a bit, other times it is drawn out of me, the funny and best part about it is it’s very, very rare there be any “God talk” going on, that never happens, its all in expression,
Marco
I love how you think, Marco. Your comment reminded me of a daily quote I received today from Neale Donald Walsch (I really like his daily emails. I encourage everyone to get on his list). He says…
On this day of your life, dear friend, I believe God wants you to know…
…that your security is guaranteed through the sharing
of your love.
The peace and safety for which you yearn is not a
matter of food, clothing, and shelter. It is a matter of
love. Love and be loved, and all else will be added
unto you.
The world will perform its magic when you step into
yours. That is the promise of God, and it will be kept.