Can A Believer Have Fellowship with an Unbeliever?
In posing the question above one must first understand what a believer is. For me, "A True Believer" is someone who believes God, never wavering in unbelief.
Eph 2:4-9
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions — it is by grace you have been saved.
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
The majority of those who claim to be believers today stop short of giving Jesus all the credit. Oh yes they will speak of HIM in great admiration giving him much of the credit for their redemption but where they stop short is when they make the claim that HE couldn’t save them without their help. They claim HE is powerless to save them without their consent and in most cases along with consent comes a whole array of obedience items that THEY must do to secure a place in God’s Kingdom.
Their message makes the claim that a TRUE believer must first believe, repent, confess, be baptized, go to church, give of their money, etc.. Now what I have just listed is only a very few of the items that goes along with their version of being a believer. The facts are that over 33,000 different brands of these type of believers can’t agree on what their part is in helping Jesus save them.
Now let me give my version of a True Believer. JESUS is the only TRUE believer. He came to earth and never wavered in His belief of God the Father. His belief fulfilled the law. His belief broke down the barriers. His belief drew ALL of Mankind into HIS Body at the Cross. His belief took away ALL of our Sins even while we were still sinners. His belief does not require our belief or anything we might do to ensure our redemption.
Now we know that Jesus is the PEACE that passes all understanding and just who can have fellowship with this JESUS (PEACE)? It is the one who believes what I have just described about the TRUE BELIEVER. Yes, our belief can bring us into fellowship with the TRUE BELIEVER, but our belief does not make anything HE did come true. What HE accomplished was accomplished by HIM, not us.
We can live our entire lives here on earth without the fellowship of the TRUE BELIEVER and we will live in doubt, guilt, self condemnation, and a lack of peace. By the way if you go to church you will hear messages that bring all those things into your life because you know that you can never measure up to what the preacher is saying.
Or you come into fellowship with the ONLY TRUE BELIEVER, JESUS, and begin to live in the freedom for which HE set us FREE.
Rom 11:32-36
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief , that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Listen closely to Paul talking about this very subject.
2 Cor 6:14-18 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you. "I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
When Paul says to come out from them and be separate he is talking about coming into the fellowship of the TRUE BELIEVER, which is Christ. He is the LIGHT. We are the TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD. I no longer have to walk with the SELF RIGHTEOUS who believe that Christ is only as strong as THEIR BELIEF. God walks where perfect righteousness abides and there is ONLY one who lived a perfectly righteous life, JESUS.
So, can a believer have fellowship with an unbeliever? The answer is NO. Maybe that’s why so many in organized religion have rejected me and branded me a false prophet and servant of the devil.
The good news is that there are some in organized religion who have not rejected me and it is my hope that down deep they truly have accepted the ONLY TRUE BELIEVER, JESUS.
Jesus loves ALL, but ALL have not accepted Him. Jesus redeemed ALL, but ALL have not yet believed. Regardless of where a human being stands on any of these things we speak about it will never change what Jesus has done and His position of Perfect Power.
Heb 2:8-9In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Just because we CAN NOT SEE EVERYTHING SUBJECT TO HIM does not mean it isn’t SO. I am convinced that ALL will see this GLORY OF JESUS, THE ONLY TRUE BELIEVER, and when we do our only response will be to fall down in complete and perfect praise of OUR PERFECT GOD AND SAVIOR.
Another GREAT Post!
I will say it again, it is only at the end of our belief in our believing that we find HIS Belief and Faith. As long as someone holds to their “belief in” Christ, self righteousness will be their guide and God. Christ can only be found in counting all belief “in” Christ as dung and embracing the faith “of” Christ.
Peace
Geo
Awesome article Cliff I thought about believe and they only way we can believe is given to us by Jesus Christ.I try to tell christian this but a lot times they can not see because of all law of do’s and don’ts.
Thanks again Cliff Love Dan
Praise God Cliff awesome article Cliff.
Love Dan
Are not beliefs mere collections of thoughts?
What I have come to realize what I(or anyone) may believe and what actually is can sometimes be worlds apart. Especially in matters of supernaturalism(such as the understanding of God as a male supreme being, separate and out there, pulling and twisting the puppet strings)
While belief enjoys a front ride seat in religious circles (religious circle meaning any particular system of beliefs about God, such as your standard Baptist doctrine to what is promoted on this site, for example) I lean toward setting beliefs (collections of thoughts) aside, not forgotten, just not critical.
Believing in the (perceived) beliefs of Christ these are just more beliefs on the table, I’m not so sure the call of God is into more systems of beliefs, but into the experience of I AM as life, as Being itself. I am rambling here, but I hope not offensive, just my own collections of thoughts(oh the irony)
grace to ya’ll
Marco
Thank God for the gift of belief.
L;ove Dan
The only thing I believe is that Christ’s belief is enough.
Love you guys!
I believe the same thing Bruce!
Peace
Geo
I am not against beliefs by any means, I just don’t get wrapped up in em as Source, as a means to define experience of God, especially in the sense that somehow I know(believe) a truth that others do not, and that they are in error, at least doctrinally. Because there again, doctrines are just collections of thoughts held and promoted by your religion(belief system) of choice, put together by the perceived understanding (or worse – the desire to control) of the group or individual.
Also just curious, Christ’s belief is enough for what?
Marco
Good question, Marco.
My answer is… that I may have no fear of God.
Thanks Bruce, so now I must ask, how do the beliefs of Christ take away fear of God?
Does Jesus protect you from God in some way? Does this sound like a reasonable explanation for I AM, of which is formless & beyond explanation?
Could this not possibly be more of a perceived deity with serious anger management issues?
Was the death of Christ a crime against humanity, or was it (here comes the religion) the satisfaction the deity in the sky needed to be able to forgive humans and stop killing them en masse (read OT) because of their excessive wickedness?
Could this not possibly be perceptions created by men?
Don’t get me wrong, there is a treasure in the Christ experience, and that is discovering, and I quote, “The realm of God is within you.” These words written as spoken before the events of the cross.
Marco
Personally, I don’t think Jesus and the Cross changed anything. All it did was reveal a concept that humanity needed desperately. That is:
“Don’t fear. You can trust God’s love.”
It is only in that level of trust that our fears can be relieved. When we change our minds about our relationship with God, and realize that there is no reason to fear him, we enter into the unity and harmony that had been there all along, but our minds (clouded with religious thinking) would not permit us to see.
Fear is the enemy. And fear has been defeated on the Cross. Fear of God… fear of sin and it’s repercussions… fear of “not knowing”. All fear robs us of the abundant, joyful life God intended for us all along.
Certainly, we can make it through life just fine with our fears. But, understanding that God’s relentless love for his creation is ours to enjoy, makes life an amazing journey.
Jesus did not die because God demanded perfect sacrifice. He died because God gave us what we wanted. We believed that a price had to be paid for our sinfulness… God did not. And in doing that wonderful act of kindness, he also revealed his nature… one of compassion, mercy, and grace. His plan was perfect; give them what they need to satisfy their needs, and at the same time, give them what they deserve to calm their fears.
Who knows? I could be all screwed up on this God thing. But, one thing I know for sure is… my life has changed immeasurably since I allowed myself to think that God’s goodness can be trusted. My only regret is that this “change of mind” came late in my life, and I missed out on so much abundance, thinking that God was angry with me, and it was my responsibility to somehow please him. Because my God was angry with me, I was angry with others. Because God was willing to condemn me, I was willing to condemn others. Because God had severe expectations of me, I had the same expectation of others. I was miserable, and I made everyone around me miserable.
We tend to complicate the message of the Cross. I know, I did it most of my life. But, life has never been better since I was finally able to admit to myself that the simple message of the Cross of Christ is that “don’t fear, you can trust God’s love.”
Don’t fear.
Excellent comment, Bruce….You have, I think, for maybe the first time shown me exactly where you stand. I know I have read posts and comments from you for quite a while, but this one is the best on your relationship with God. I thank you for the clarity.
Hey Bruce, I appreciate your thoughtful response, I may not think of God as a being out there separate with some divine plan, but in a metaphorical way I am with you 100%,
Grace to you all,
Marco
Marco Wrote:
Christ’s belief is enough for what?
Hi Marco,
Geo here, my answer to your question is: Me
Selah
Geo
Thanks Don. I realize that I’m not often able to put into words what my heart is screaming. These are difficult concepts to verbalize, and that’s where many misunderstandings arise from. There is something good though, about being able to share a heart-message with those who understand, when possible.
Marco, I’m not sure what I might have said that led you to believe that I think “God is out there with some divine plan”. I don’t think that at all, and if I mis-stated my position, I apologize. I believe, as you seem to, that God is in us, and all around us. He is the glue that holds the atoms of everything in the universe together (including our atoms), and is the power that keeps the physical in order. But he is also the source of all life (something beyond the physical), and placed this “life” in this place for a very specific reason. And I believe that he is always closely connected to the life he creates. It is an extension of himself, and it cannot be separated from him.
I think God created this place we call the universe to be a learning-ground. I don’t think for a minute that he is “testing us”, but rather, he is curing us… preparing us for the next great level of existence. I think he crafted this physical realm very carefully to expose us to all the good and bad, ups and downs, backs and forths… that we need to grow as spiritual beings. Problem is, we let our minds dwell in the physical, when we should be focusing on the spiritual. And the spiritual is not “us”, it is life… ALL LIFE. It manifests in the love we put into our relationships, and the hope we have for others. It is the kindness we heap on our friends, and the compassion we share for humanity.
Dwelling on the physical breeds fear. Fear is the enemy of love, hope, kindness and compassion. It causes us to withdraw in self-protection, making us distance ourselves from others. But, rising above fear, abandoning self, and embracing LIFE, breeds love. It is what is left when fear disappears. This is the message of the Cross. Have no fear. I think God said “what will it take to show you how much I love you?” He knew the hearts of his people, and he did what he had to do to prove his love.
It amazes me how so many people still don’t get it. But that has been the message of the church for so many centuries. They have made it their work to gloss over the real meaning of the Cross with a message of requirement, expectation, and obligation for all humanity. Instead of a story of freedom from fear, they preach guilt and shame… “you are not good enough for God, so here is what you need to do! And don’t worry, stick with us, and we will show you how! It won’t be easy, and you need us every step of the way. But, we will lead you through the complexities and confusions of pleasing God, and we will watch over you to make sure you don’t falter. God is demanding, and your quest for perfection is the only thing that will satisfy him! And in the end, it will be up to you as to whether you fall on the favorable side of God’s judgment, or not!”
And people wonder why I dislike fear-based religion so much.
But, there is good news! There is a safe place you can put your mind into, and that is the faith of Christ! He knew about God, and he trusted him. Not that he didn’t have his moments of “self-preservation” (it’s part of life on earth), but he had the courage to, in the end, abandon self and fully trust the Father. It is his faith in God that sets the perfect example of trust. And in perfect trust, there is no fear. Fear destroys love.
When I read the words, “it is finished”, my heart hears, “fear is finished”.
Have no fear.
Way to preach Bruce if people heard this message instead of fear what a difference it would making in people hearts and minds.
Love Dan
Bruce,
Once again you have put into the written word exactly as if it came straight from my heart. It is truly an eternal connection we share. I know that we share this connection with all of creation but it’s nice to know someone who recognizes the same things that my heart is testifying to.
Hi Geo, your answer is “me”, how is that so? That Christs beliefs are enough for you?
Bruce, thank you for such a thought out response, in regards to how I perceive your understanding of God as separate male deity I can only say that I have gleaned that from your comments, perhaps too loosely, your understanding of God is very similar to mine, but thinking of life as an extension only of this deity still keeps it separate in the sense and this basically describes theism(the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe), this being the traditional understanding of God that is so worn into our minds we find it strange to consider God any other way.
Theism is dead, the Father figure in the sky (remember it is recorded Jesus physically ascended to his father in heaven) understanding is nothing more than human perception based on the experiences of our ancestors.
Humanity has and is moving on from theism and so then its understanding and experience of God must change with the tidal wave that is an evolving consciousness, the new wine skins of awareness can not fit into the old wine skins of theism.
Jesus taught the realm of God is within, this is a realm where we find our true identity, one that is boundless, formless and beyond explanation with words, experience is the true measure and even that is relative to the one experiencing.
After over 10 years of traditional Christianity I too experienced much freedom when I came into the understanding of Gods Amazing Grace, the Gospel went from an exclusive one to an inclusive one. Any fear I might have held about God died in this new wake of understanding and what I considered revelation. No question it was an awesome experience and one I never thought I would stray from. I remember tears of joy literally rolling down my face, and I am sure many of you can relate.
Although I have moved on from the broken concepts of theism and bankruptcy of believing Jesus literally died for sins, I continue to embrace the spirit of much of what the gospel is you fellows here preach – one of inclusion, we are all equal on this planet, always have been always will be.
God is Love and Love is God. This love has the power to heal and restore.
But, the cross didn’t make this happen as an event, the best it can do is reveal a state that already is. Awareness makes this happen in experience with others. Jesus didn’t die for me to pay a ransom I just could never pay to the ruling male deity, no he died because he is one that lived Life so freely he was able to give it away gracefully and continually to the point where even in death he didn’t hang on to anything self, perhaps other than that he knew Being (as we all are in essence and through Awareness have the capacity for) and this was his empowerment to freely live and freely die. Not doctrines, not beliefs, they are just distractions.
The theism of the day wrapped their language around this mystical, amazing human being and created what we basically understand as Christianity, a shadow at best, a copy that tries so hard to satisfy but one that ultimately never can, why? Theism, layers and layers of it.
I have rambled enough for one night, thank you for your time,
In Christ,
Marco
Marco Wrote:
Hi Geo, your answer is “me”, how is that so? That Christs beliefs are enough for you?
Marco,
I used to be a person that felt I had to keep explaining myself until people understood things the way I do but I no longer have for the most part that compulsion. So my answer to your question is draw your own conclusion as to what my answer means.
Peace
Geo
I’d rather not thanks, if it works for you then who am I to question, you guys are great, I appreciate the freedom to have shared, have a good one
Marco
hELLO CLIFF, I FOUND YOUR BOLDGRACE WEBSITE LESS THAN A MONTH AGO AND I LOVE IT. I AM 60 YEARS OLD AND HAVE PRAYED FOR UNDERSTANDING FOR MOST OF MY ADULT LIFE. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY INSIGHTS ALONG THE WAY BUT YOUR TEACHING HAS HELPED ME SO MUCH. I AM SO GLAD YOU RESUMED POSTING. GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR WIFE. THE VERSES THAT SAY (IF YOU DENY ME BEFORE MEN I WILL DENY YOU BEFORE MY FATHER) AND (IF YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL BE SAVED)AND (DEPART FROM ME I NEVER KNEW YOU) STILL TROUBLE ME. COULD YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND THESE IN PROPER CONTEXT? THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Sue, Thanks for your kind words and Yes, I will be glad to answer those questions. This is a busy week but give me a few days and when I have time I will post on those topics.
Great Love,
Cliff
Cliff, “Touch no unclean thing and I will recieve you” seems to conflict with the explanation which seems to be the scenario for many scriptures. Why is that? Why does the verse say do not be yoked together with unbelievers if it cannot be done? What is the meaning of yoked here and does this mean one cannot assosciate with others? (be separate] Growing up in a traditional Christain church it was never enough to believe Jesus as Saviour pure and simple as it was always complicated with opinion judgements on each other (in and out of said church) which of course results in unending fights and people severing relationships each claiming to be right backed by scripture. I struggle to understand seemingly conflicting scripture so I may not make sense when I ask questions so please bear with me. I am so grateful for you sharing your understanding of scripture. I know we will not always agree but there is no law against that! (joke) Jesus is the true believer of God for he is the only one who has done His will perfectly which covers our unbelief. You truly have a gift of understanding and I am honored to be your student. Because of Christ and Gods Love – Sue
Sue, Thank you for your kindness and interest in better understanding the true YOU. I will be posting about some of your questions as well as others I have recieved.