Comments on: Our Father! http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/ It's more wonderful than you can imagine! Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:00:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Marco Albright http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3730 Marco Albright Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:59:43 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3730 fascinating stuff Brian, I had to read it a few times to get the gist, but is very much in line with where I have been at these days, moving beyond traditional mindsets and patterns and getting to the core is no easy task, but is simple as ABC if you know what I mean :) the kingdom (realm) is within all, no matter religious/non religious background, belief/non belief in God, faith/ non faith. These are all attachments, perceptions/words/thoughts etc..They certainly have the ability to "block the view" but don't always have the ability to "point the way", but sometimes do. Part of the adventure is sifting through, panning for the gold so to speak. In the end we are still only sifting for pointers to the formless I AM that is without attachment.Just IS. Jesus was/is instrumential in revealing these pointers, as you describe very well Brian, rock on Marco fascinating stuff Brian, I had to read it a few times to get the gist, but is very much in line with where I have been at these days, moving beyond traditional mindsets and patterns and getting to the core is no easy task, but is simple as ABC if you know what I mean :)

the kingdom (realm) is within all, no matter religious/non religious background, belief/non belief in God, faith/ non faith. These are all attachments, perceptions/words/thoughts etc..They certainly have the ability to “block the view” but don’t always have the ability to “point the way”, but sometimes do.

Part of the adventure is sifting through, panning for the gold so to speak. In the end we are still only sifting for pointers to the formless I AM that is without attachment.Just IS. Jesus was/is instrumential in revealing these pointers, as you describe very well Brian,

rock on

Marco

]]> By: Brian NZ http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3714 Brian NZ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:53:21 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3714 Here's a more technical explanation of "metanoia" that I wrote up for another blog. "Metanoia" is the Greek word used by Jesus that is normally translated in your Bibles as "repent". It does not mean that at all and this misunderstanding has sabotaged the whole Christian faith so it hasn't been able to reach what it preaches. . Metanoia: from the Greek “meta” meaning beyond or outside and “noia”, meaning understanding. In practical terms “understanding” can be seen as our normal mindset or world/religious view. How we think. Noia is derived from the Greek “nous” which means our minds. . Compare this word – paranoia. “Para” means off to the side and “noia” refers to our world view or ideology. So paranoia means a skewed, off to the side world view. Off center thinking from the normal . Another couple of examples. “metaphysics” and “metamorphous”. Meta meaning beyond or outside, so metaphysics means outside the limits of physics. In the same way metamorphous means beyond-change. . Metanoia therefore means a state that is beyond our normal thinking or mindset. I have tried to describe the practical application of this as being “a change in the way we use our minds”. We think inside ourselves, which takes us beyond our normal minds and brings our deepest feelings into the equation. So metanoia, or true repentance does not mean a change of mind as some of you are implying. That’s trying to fit the definition back into the old religious “repent” thinking. That word “repentance” comes to English from the old French word “repentir” meaning “to feel regret for sins and crimes”. “Repentir” came from the Latin words “penitire” to regret, and “poenitire” to make sorry. It is the source of our words penitentiary, penitent and penance and related to our word “pain”. Using this “repent” definition would change the Gospel (Good News) to mean “feel sorrow and regret and pain because the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” . It doesn’t fit does it? True metanoia repentance does! No I’m not a language scholar – far from it. I specialize in researching the practical application of these things and I have been doing this for 35 years now. Metanoia is actually a very simple thing and a child can do it. It’s just that we are trained out of it from the day we are born. We are brainwashed into thinking like the mainstream society around us, religious or secular, and that locks us away from this dimension - the kingdom - which has been within us all the time. That’s what Jesus came to reveal to us and we are only just waking up. Here’s a more technical explanation of “metanoia” that I wrote up for another blog. “Metanoia” is the Greek word used by Jesus that is normally translated in your Bibles as “repent”. It does not mean that at all and this misunderstanding has sabotaged the whole Christian faith so it hasn’t been able to reach what it preaches.
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Metanoia: from the Greek “meta” meaning beyond or outside and “noia”, meaning understanding. In practical terms “understanding” can be seen as our normal mindset or world/religious view. How we think. Noia is derived from the Greek “nous” which means our minds.
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Compare this word – paranoia.
“Para” means off to the side and “noia” refers to our world view or ideology.
So paranoia means a skewed, off to the side world view. Off center thinking from the normal
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Another couple of examples. “metaphysics” and “metamorphous”. Meta meaning beyond or outside, so metaphysics means outside the limits of physics. In the same way metamorphous means beyond-change.
.
Metanoia therefore means a state that is beyond our normal thinking or mindset. I have tried to describe the practical application of this as being “a change in the way we use our minds”. We think inside ourselves, which takes us beyond our normal minds and brings our deepest feelings into the equation. So metanoia, or true repentance does not mean a change of mind as some of you are implying. That’s trying to fit the definition back into the old religious “repent” thinking. That word “repentance” comes to English from the old French word “repentir” meaning “to feel regret for sins and crimes”. “Repentir” came from the Latin words “penitire” to regret, and “poenitire” to make sorry. It is the source of our words penitentiary, penitent and penance and related to our word “pain”. Using this “repent” definition would change the Gospel (Good News) to mean “feel sorrow and regret and pain because the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
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It doesn’t fit does it? True metanoia repentance does! No I’m not a language scholar – far from it. I specialize in researching the practical application of these things and I have been doing this for 35 years now. Metanoia is actually a very simple thing and a child can do it. It’s just that we are trained out of it from the day we are born. We are brainwashed into thinking like the mainstream society around us, religious or secular, and that locks us away from this dimension - the kingdom - which has been within us all the time. That’s what Jesus came to reveal to us and we are only just waking up.

]]> By: Brian NZ http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3713 Brian NZ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:19:37 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3713 Cliff . With all due respects Cliff I don’t think you are correct here. I see flashes of this new dimension in ordinary people very regularly these days. I do have the advantage of being in an environment where there is more opportunity for this but I have been monitoring it for the last 30 odd years when I first became aware of it. There was little of it back then but today it’s a totally different story. It’s even now showing up in Christians - and that is saying something! Like your own group here, but even they probably don’t fully realize the significance of what is happening. . This is the problem with ordinary people too when I see that flash of recognition in their eyes and feel it well up in me. They don’t understand the potential of what they are connecting with. . “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming (presence) of the Son of Man (the son of oneself) be.” . So I can’t see it taking 1,000 years, or anything like it – I haven’t got the time to wait that long anyway! We can have it now. It only requires “metanoia” repentance. This understanding of repentance (what it means in practice) has never been understood by the Church, yet it is all that we are required to do. . If any of you are interested in a practical example of “metanoia” repentance which you could probably relate to, Google “Jim’s Blog”. It’s where I met Bruce. Go to the topic “My So-Concepted Life”. On this particular thread there is an ex IC lady, Jane, who describes it very well and she shows how we are able to connect with this in-built unity that runs through all of humankind in spite of what they may believe. . Scroll down until you find Jane's first comment. You can't help feeling joyful for her with the obvious delight she shows in discovering this new toy! You'll see Audrey and I there too putting in our penny's worth! . All I can do is encourage all of you to keep on going because we need each other to help us through - that's it's nature - we can't do it on our own. Cliff
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With all due respects Cliff I don’t think you are correct here. I see flashes of this new dimension in ordinary people very regularly these days. I do have the advantage of being in an environment where there is more opportunity for this but I have been monitoring it for the last 30 odd years when I first became aware of it. There was little of it back then but today it’s a totally different story. It’s even now showing up in Christians - and that is saying something! Like your own group here, but even they probably don’t fully realize the significance of what is happening.
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This is the problem with ordinary people too when I see that flash of recognition in their eyes and feel it well up in me. They don’t understand the potential of what they are connecting with.
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“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming (presence) of the Son of Man (the son of oneself) be.”
.
So I can’t see it taking 1,000 years, or anything like it – I haven’t got the time to wait that long anyway! We can have it now. It only requires “metanoia” repentance. This understanding of repentance (what it means in practice) has never been understood by the Church, yet it is all that we are required to do.
.
If any of you are interested in a practical example of “metanoia” repentance which you could probably relate to, Google “Jim’s Blog”. It’s where I met Bruce. Go to the topic “My So-Concepted Life”. On this particular thread there is an ex IC lady, Jane, who describes it very well and she shows how we are able to connect with this in-built unity that runs through all of humankind in spite of what they may believe.
.
Scroll down until you find Jane’s first comment. You can’t help feeling joyful for her with the obvious delight she shows in discovering this new toy! You’ll see Audrey and I there too putting in our penny’s worth!
.
All I can do is encourage all of you to keep on going because we need each other to help us through - that’s it’s nature - we can’t do it on our own.

]]> By: Brian NZ http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3712 Brian NZ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 08:57:52 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3712 Cliff . With all due respects Cliff I don’t think you are correct here. I see flashes of this new dimension in ordinary people very regularly these days. I do have the advantage of being in an environment where there is more opportunity for this but I have been monitoring it for the last 30 odd years when I first became aware of it. There was little of it back then but today it’s a totally different story. It’s even now showing up in Christians - and that is saying something! Like your own group here, but even they probably don’t fully realize the significance of what is happening. . This is the problem with ordinary people too when I see that flash of recognition in their eyes and feel it well up in me. They don’t understand the potential of what they are connecting with. . “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming (presence) of the Son of Man (the son of oneself) be.” . So I can’t see it taking 1,000 years, or anything like it – I haven’t got the time to wait that long anyway! We can have it now. It only requires “metanoia” repentance. This understanding of repentance (what it means in practice) has never been understood by the Church, yet it is all that we are required to do. . If any of you are interested in a practical example of “metanoia” repentance which you could probably relate to, go to Jim’s Blog. It’s where I met Bruce. On this particular thread there is an ex IC lady, Jane, who describes it very well and it shows how we are able to connect with this in-built unity that runs through all of humankind in spite of what they may believe. . The thread is http://www.divinenobodies.com/blog/?p=501 . Scroll down until you find Jane's first comment. You can't help feeling joyful for her with the obvious delight she shows in discovering this new toy! You'll see Audrey and I there too putting in our penny's worth! . Keep on going, all of you, because we need each other to help us through - that's it's nature - we can't do it on our own. Cliff
.
With all due respects Cliff I don’t think you are correct here. I see flashes of this new dimension in ordinary people very regularly these days. I do have the advantage of being in an environment where there is more opportunity for this but I have been monitoring it for the last 30 odd years when I first became aware of it. There was little of it back then but today it’s a totally different story. It’s even now showing up in Christians - and that is saying something! Like your own group here, but even they probably don’t fully realize the significance of what is happening.
.
This is the problem with ordinary people too when I see that flash of recognition in their eyes and feel it well up in me. They don’t understand the potential of what they are connecting with.
.
“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming (presence) of the Son of Man (the son of oneself) be.”
.
So I can’t see it taking 1,000 years, or anything like it – I haven’t got the time to wait that long anyway! We can have it now. It only requires “metanoia” repentance. This understanding of repentance (what it means in practice) has never been understood by the Church, yet it is all that we are required to do.
.
If any of you are interested in a practical example of “metanoia” repentance which you could probably relate to, go to Jim’s Blog. It’s where I met Bruce. On this particular thread there is an ex IC lady, Jane, who describes it very well and it shows how we are able to connect with this in-built unity that runs through all of humankind in spite of what they may believe.
.
The thread is http://www.divinenobodies.com/blog/?p=501
.
Scroll down until you find Jane’s first comment. You can’t help feeling joyful for her with the obvious delight she shows in discovering this new toy! You’ll see Audrey and I there too putting in our penny’s worth!
.
Keep on going, all of you, because we need each other to help us through - that’s it’s nature - we can’t do it on our own.

]]> By: Audrey http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3711 Audrey Mon, 06 Oct 2008 08:40:42 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3711 Cliff, I fear I have been taking up rather a lot of room on this blog, but I've been thinking about your reply to me all day and hoping that someone else would write in and encourage you to see that the fig tree is indeed in leaf. We don't have to wait a thousand years, we are living in the promised time now and we must be ready because the bridegroom is even at the door. The signs are all around us, the Father is drawing people who have rebelled against the phoniness of religion and the emptiness of the world, bringing them together, and as they begin to speak from their hearts to one another, they are finding that Father is within them. He is the connecting current, and he is opening our eyes to see that the Kingdom is available to us right now. Thirty years ago, I grant you it was rare, but today you see it popping up all over the place, especially in the last 6 months. Be encouraged Cliff, you are on the right track and greatly loved. There is so much just around the corner, so let's all keep going deeper and find out what's in store for us so we can get out there and heal the nations. Cliff, I fear I have been taking up rather a lot of room on this blog, but I’ve been thinking about your reply to me all day and hoping that someone else would write in and encourage you to see that the fig tree is indeed in leaf. We don’t have to wait a thousand years, we are living in the promised time now and we must be ready because the bridegroom is even at the door. The signs are all around us, the Father is drawing people who have rebelled against the phoniness of religion and the emptiness of the world, bringing them together, and as they begin to speak from their hearts to one another, they are finding that Father is within them. He is the connecting current, and he is opening our eyes to see that the Kingdom is available to us right now. Thirty years ago, I grant you it was rare, but today you see it popping up all over the place, especially in the last 6 months. Be encouraged Cliff, you are on the right track and greatly loved. There is so much just around the corner, so let’s all keep going deeper and find out what’s in store for us so we can get out there and heal the nations.

]]> By: Cliff http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3710 Cliff Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:27:52 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3710 I believe it will be rare instances where we really connect and it will only happen with individuals who have come to the knowledge of this grace and peace. It is rare now but it is also a growing environment where more and more souls are joining the ranks of this freedom to be who we are. Who knows, maybe in a thousand years it will become the norm. Cliff I believe it will be rare instances where we really connect and it will only happen with individuals who have come to the knowledge of this grace and peace. It is rare now but it is also a growing environment where more and more souls are joining the ranks of this freedom to be who we are. Who knows, maybe in a thousand years it will become the norm.

Cliff

]]> By: Audrey http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3709 Audrey Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:55:13 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3709 Cliff, all that is very true and in addition I'm finding just as much phoniness outside the IC as in it. Everywhere there are traditions and fixed ideas that blind us to our real selves and the Father in us. Some are readily identified but others are more subtle. How then can we truly relate to each other, what is the trick when we've taken all this 'stuff' on board? Isn't the REAL connection with others found only in the Father? Isn't that feeling of light bursting within us, bringing joy and happiness? And, if so, how do we REMAIN in the light? Cliff, all that is very true and in addition I’m finding just as much phoniness outside the IC as in it. Everywhere there are traditions and fixed ideas that blind us to our real selves and the Father in us. Some are readily identified but others are more subtle. How then can we truly relate to each other, what is the trick when we’ve taken all this ’stuff’ on board? Isn’t the REAL connection with others found only in the Father? Isn’t that feeling of light bursting within us, bringing joy and happiness? And, if so, how do we REMAIN in the light?

]]> By: Cliff http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3708 Cliff Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:33:12 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3708 I agree Audrey.....we need each other, but it must be our real self that we identify with. Too often we have been trained to only relate to the false self which always poses problems. That's why I don't think the church can be of any benefit because it encourages the false self. That's why non-church people always call church people hypocrites. The phony atmosphere in a church setting does not allow people to really be who they are. The good news is that we can always be our true self with the Father. I agree Audrey…..we need each other, but it must be our real self that we identify with. Too often we have been trained to only relate to the false self which always poses problems. That’s why I don’t think the church can be of any benefit because it encourages the false self. That’s why non-church people always call church people hypocrites. The phony atmosphere in a church setting does not allow people to really be who they are. The good news is that we can always be our true self with the Father.

]]> By: Audrey http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3707 Audrey Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:17:56 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3707 "Feelings are an incredible sensor, for years in church I was taught to never trust them, in a certain context that is true, but that is only one side of the coin. The other side is following your heart, moving forward, evolving as Awareness becomes as common as breathing. You don’t even have to think about it, it just happens." (Marco) Thanks Marco, - this from your post really lit up for me. But we cannot do the 'moving on' by ourselves. Hence my sense of urgency. We need each other to get us out of the wilderness and into the new land. Yes, for sure we see 'glimpses' all over the place, many unexpected, - an ad on TV, a film, a book. But I have a hunger for more than a glimpse or a touch. I feel love drawing us toward the goal and I want to shed off the things that cloud my vision, that hinder progress. I want to be so pure that I can transmit the light and I can only do that by speaking from an open heart, to others of open heart. It requires a different way of thinking, as you have said 'I suspect the key to moving forward/breaking through is not having stuff all figured out'. THAT really is the key. But, I have to disagree that we may never reach this place. The One who is drawing us promised it. “Feelings are an incredible sensor, for years in church I was taught to never trust them, in a certain context that is true, but that is only one side of the coin. The other side is following your heart, moving forward, evolving as Awareness becomes as common as breathing. You don’t even have to think about it, it just happens.” (Marco)
Thanks Marco, - this from your post really lit up for me. But we cannot do the ‘moving on’ by ourselves. Hence my sense of urgency. We need each other to get us out of the wilderness and into the new land. Yes, for sure we see ‘glimpses’ all over the place, many unexpected, - an ad on TV, a film, a book. But I have a hunger for more than a glimpse or a touch. I feel love drawing us toward the goal and I want to shed off the things that cloud my vision, that hinder progress. I want to be so pure that I can transmit the light and I can only do that by speaking from an open heart, to others of open heart. It requires a different way of thinking, as you have said ‘I suspect the key to moving forward/breaking through is not having stuff all figured out’. THAT really is the key. But, I have to disagree that we may never reach this place. The One who is drawing us promised it.

]]> By: marco http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3706 marco Sat, 04 Oct 2008 22:00:23 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2008/09/26/our-father/#comment-3706 hey Audrey no problem, some of what was written(by yourself and others) just kinda reminded of what I have read in the past. Understanding ego is what aids in taking us out of our heads, but I guess we perceive as we do. I have very much enjoyed the written works of authors such as Spong and Tolle, as awesome as their writings are, like any written word, including the bible itself, can only{at best} ever point to something that is beyond the "letter", and beyond the false sense of self, the "old man". What others might confirm/affirm to us(in your case Mindy) in written or oral form is no different. Words don't so much carry life as they do point towards Life, the Unexplainable, but fully expressionable. But I am not ashamed to say I look to spiritual guides for direction/understanding in this journey of life, its not like one has to hang on every word. There is a reason people flocked to Jesus in his day, perhaps not all noble but reasons non the less, persons like Spong and Tolle are no less compelling in my opinion. In essense neither are we. I find an incredible wealth of wisdom to be found in others who have had their layers peeled away, revealing Core. Obviously what does not jive(truly minister) with that Core we are expirencing ourselves (and others) to be, we need not be bothered. Feelings are an incredible sensor, for years in church I was taught to never trust them, in a certain context that is true, but that is only one side of the coin. The other side is following your heart, moving forward, evolving as Awareness becomes as common as breathing. You don't even have to think about it, it just happens. I suspect the key to moving forward/breaking through is not having stuff all figured out, not getting all urgent about any situation or heart desire, perhaps the key is realizing you never will but are willing to step forward into the Unknown anyway. Perhaps in this faith has a ressurection chance. peace out, Marco hey Audrey no problem, some of what was written(by yourself and others) just kinda reminded of what I have read in the past. Understanding ego is what aids in taking us out of our heads, but I guess we perceive as we do.

I have very much enjoyed the written works of authors such as Spong and Tolle, as awesome as their writings are, like any written word, including the bible itself, can only{at best} ever point to something that is beyond the “letter”, and beyond the false sense of self, the “old man”. What others might confirm/affirm to us(in your case Mindy) in written or oral form is no different. Words don’t so much carry life as they do point towards Life, the Unexplainable, but fully expressionable.

But I am not ashamed to say I look to spiritual guides for direction/understanding in this journey of life, its not like one has to hang on every word.
There is a reason people flocked to Jesus in his day, perhaps not all noble but reasons non the less, persons like Spong and Tolle are no less compelling in my opinion. In essense neither are we.

I find an incredible wealth of wisdom to be found in others who have had their layers peeled away, revealing Core.
Obviously what does not jive(truly minister) with that Core we are expirencing ourselves (and others) to be, we need not be bothered. Feelings are an incredible sensor, for years in church I was taught to never trust them, in a certain context that is true, but that is only one side of the coin. The other side is following your heart, moving forward, evolving as Awareness becomes as common as breathing. You don’t even have to think about it, it just happens.
I suspect the key to moving forward/breaking through is not having stuff all figured out, not getting all urgent about any situation or heart desire, perhaps the key is realizing you never will but are willing to step forward into the Unknown anyway.
Perhaps in this faith has a ressurection chance.

peace out,

Marco

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