We Tolerate People, Not Bullys!
I’ve seen bullys all my life in all sorts of forms. They are all the same at the core. They are insecure, they are full of fear, and they really want attention. They are also people who desperately need to find love. The problem is they are looking for it in all the wrong places. We here at Boldgrace tolerate people of all sorts. We tolerate those who attack us, we tolerate those who disagree with us, and we tolerate those who choose to insult us, but we won’t tolerate bullys. By that, I mean we will not let them get by with their rantings and ravings without challenge. We are not here to have long drawn out debates about scripture. Yes, we love for people to share their views on the subject and we love to share ours, but there is a line that we won’t allow to be crossed without a challenge. I am putting the following video on because a certain person has been coming here to bully us. I know without a doubt that a particular name came to your mind as you read this so I don’t need to name that person. Let me just say that we are not going to allow that person to have free reign anymore.
Someone awhile ago asked what the "LINE" is? Well, for me it has been crossed. We will not bar that person from this site (as they have been by other sites) but we will begin to take a tougher stance on the relentless attacks on not only our characters but several of those who comment here on a regular basis. I (Cliff) do believe this person comes here because they are crying out for help, but enabling them will not help them.
TO THAT PERSON: (you know who you are) STOP THE BULLYING. YOU ARE VERY SICK AND IN NEED OF HELP. PLEASE SEEK OUT A QUALIFIED HEALTH PROFESSIONAL THAT CAN HELP YOU DEAL WITH YOUR CONTROL ISSUES AND FEARS. PLEASE KNOW THAT WE WISH FOR YOU HEALTH AND HAPPINESS, BUT WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO BE A BULLY UNCHALLENGED.
And we welcome that person to come to the Light!
And when they come we will say, “Welcome Home”
Peace
Geo
He came and he shined a light. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
They who said, “we are perfect and judge no man” were found lacking on both accounts.
(Ah you missed it! We NEVER said we don’t judge! At least I have not. But we have said that we judge no man or woman’s standing before God or as Paul put it, “we judge no one after the flesh”. Then again maybe we do judge others. We judge them to be righteous, perfect and holy. Like Paul said quit making a outward judgment and judge righteously. Which is what we have done here at Bold Grace we have judged righteously i.e all are judged as RIGHTEOUS!
That even includes you Jackie! Good News ! – Added by Geo)
The “New Tolerance/ I’m perfect, your perfect” charade has once again been exposed as willful and disobedient children in dirty diapers cry unfair at the man holding the mirror in front of them.
(You are projecting yourself and your feelings of unworthiness on us again Jackie. Come on Home my little brother you are safe and the Father is waiting to Welcome you. – Added by Geo)
You really have to get a Life Jack,Try Jesus, we have and that is why we just cannot stop loving you.
Love you bro.
Jeff and Kate.
Hi all, wow this place has really taken a dump and is resting in it, the Belief Wars rage on I see, what started out as thoughtful debate has turned to shit – (recent comments in Glen Klein Online and Hebrews 10 for Brian show us how), and now this newest post.
Two sides withs fist pumping in the air “my Jesus my belief System!” while one outright offends the others do so under a veil of humility and supposed grace. What we think about the Cross and God are just more.belief.systems.
“COME TO OUR SIDE THE FATHER IS WAITING” is so full of self rightness I am sickened with it.
“YOU FOUL LAWLESS HEATHENS IN DIAPERS REPENT!” is so full of self rightness I am sickened with it.
At the end of the day if one cannot see the deceptively destructive nature of building ones life around doctrines, even the “good” ones, and thinking the Bible has some divine authoritative power inspired by God out there somewhere, with a plan of action, is an illusion that has duped us all, at least at one point or another. We fall into the trap of thinking our interpretation is the “right” one. We get so caught up in taking it literally we miss the spirit of it all. And that is tragic.
If we would take the time to listen to one another instead of allowing our ego’s to respond we just might see, there are things to be gleaned from both Jack and Cliff n’ Co., but it is not a rightness of thinking and beliefs systems, also it is not to sit back separately from it and think “I’ve got it” either.
It would seem to me if those who are determined to stay stuck within the confines of belief systems then at least find some common ground – Ultimate Reconciliation seems to be the order of the day, thats what Jack believes, thats what Cliff n Co. believe. Don’t get stuck on the (perceived) means part of the means to an end, stick to the (perceived) end -Ultimate Reconciliation, Christ all in all, happily ever after doctrines, and just maybe this nonsense will expire.
In Christ
Marco
Marco,
I agree it is very easy to get caught up in fighting FIRE with FIRE which only results in a really Big and out of control FIRE. Love ceases to be the motivator. Thank you for your comments and I for one would rather not be caught up in arguments for arguments sake. It does not lead to anyplace good. Discussion is great, but we have all gone far past that. I am sorry for my part. Let’s get back to why we are all here – learning from each other how to better love each other and the world we live in together. Because he first loved us – Sue
I tend to agree with you, Marco and Sue. But, surely these ugly situations teach us a lot about ourselves, and help us grow through our doubts and fears. The Christ event/message is all about the abandonment of self-righteousness, as well as, self-loathing. And as we decrease, the spirit of God who is in us, increases.
Jack is all about PROVING to others that there is no relief from suffering in this world. In a way, he’s right. Human flesh will suffer (although I choose to call it “learning”). He suffers deeply for whatever reason, and is looking for some relief. He’s not finding it in religion, and though he may be drawn to the message heard here, if the ideas shared here are valid, he wants it to be proven. Fair enough. The thing I think he fails to realize though, at least in my opinion, is that the “perfection” we speak of is in covenant to God. I certainly make no claim of perfection as far as any human (flesh) interactions go, but I am certain that the Christ message is one of perfection of creation in the eyes of the Creator. I cannot be more settled in that thought. And if Jack wants to say that his flesh is more perfect than mine because of his “suffering”, so be it. I don’t care because my flesh is dead anyway. It won’t be long now before my flesh will return to the dust from which it was borrowed, and all that will be left of me is the perfection that God placed in me in the first place.
The idea of being perfect in God’s eyes DOES have an effect on the believer. It is not a license to “party” (as Jack would put it), but an invitation to “love”. Love changes you, I don’t care who you are. But, I’m not talking about love that is conjured up through some sense of obligation. I speak of love that manifests supernaturally, just because we know we are perfectly loved. True love casts out all fear, and frees us from our insecurities and our need to prove ourselves. Love permits us to give up human selves, and focus on our spirit selves. The perfect spirit-self inside of us needs no proving. It has nothing to protect; no belief systems, no reputation, no ego, no agenda, no expectation. It is just the pure spirit of God within, patiently waiting to be known, without need for self-preservation.
When one belief system clashes with another, both are tested, and ideally, both will be rejected. Bottom line is, if Christ is the redeemer, and we have revelation of that, nothing else will matter. If he is not, or he is but we don’t have revelation of that, nothing else will make any difference (until the end when all is revealed).
I must remember that Jack is as perfect as anyone else deep inside. That perfection is the kernel of essence that God sees. Everything else is human, and that “humanness” layers us with the stuff of the world. We all have it. It’s the baggage we’ve picked up along the way, and that has been given to us (even though we might not even realize it). But, no matter how much baggage we carry, and maybe even offend people with, deep down we are all exactly the same… the Goodness of God. We have the same need to love, and the same desire for unity. That is the piece of God in us that our human layering tries to cover up. What Jack calls suffering, I call learning (or more correctly “unlearning”). As our hearts become able to see the layers of humanness the world has heaped on us, the more unsettled we become. We feel inadequate and burdened and want rid of that which has defiled us. We talk about the “peeling away” of the layers of filth we all carry, but I’m not so sure that’s the way God works. Whatever WE DO has no merit. We cannot peel the layers, but simply recognize them and permit the perfect spirit inside to burst through them from the inside out, destroying them in the process. If our focus is on self-improvement, we will always be looking at our filthiness. If our focus is on the surety of God within, there is nothing to do but wait, rest, and enjoy. He will bring us through the process of helping us recognize our true identity. And surely, there is pain in the process. But, in the safety of continuous communion with God, it is all counted as joy.
I don’t see Christianity as some big “self help” program. I see it as a simple revelation of “God in us” and the incredible power that coming to an understanding of that has. Recognizing the power of God within all of us has changed my thinking in so many areas. Understanding that our hearts are perfectly aligned with God’s heart, life is sweet and can be enjoyed despite the sometimes painful learning experiences we all encounter.
I would love to know Jack aside of the belief agendas and expectations. I see the same spirit of God in him as I see in everyone. And I hope that our differences can someday fade far into the background as we focus clearly on the only thing that is truly matters – the only thing that is real… Love.
Bruce, WONDERFUL!!!! WOW!! Thank you. Because he first loved us – Sue
God’s love never leaves us and is greater then any of our differences His love has no end.We are all just begining to see how great His love truly is and I thank God for all the love in all our hearts.
Love in Christ Dan
The rule in carving holds good as to criticism;
never cut with a knife what you can cut with a spoon. There are
very few good reasons to sharply criticize anyone,
least of all your idea that you know a “better way.” Continual critical
comments with an edge can deeply hurt the real purpose of our being
here.
DonR, I’ll file that away for future reference, Thanks! Because he first loved us – Sue
Marco said: “Hi all, wow this place has really taken a dump and is resting in it, the Belief Wars rage on I see, what started out as thoughtful debate has turned to shit”
The very reason I wrote this post is because I hole hardedly agree that “thoughtful debate had turned to shit”. We at Boldgrace did not turn it into that and in fact we tried very hard to stop it. I am sorry you can not see the difference between what we do and the bully who came here to attack us.
Marco said: “At the end of the day if one cannot see the deceptively destructive nature of building ones life around doctrines, even the “good” ones, and thinking the Bible has some divine authoritative power inspired by God out there somewhere, with a plan of action, is an illusion that has duped us all, at least at one point or another.”
All of us (including you Marco) build our lives around the beliefs we have gathered and I am not ashamed that I hold the Bible to have divine authoritative power and that I beileve all of it was inspired by God because God is the creator of every person who wrote any of its words. As far as that goes God inspired me to write this because He gave me the brain that I am using (that’s a whole other post). You seem to want to paint Jack and Cliff & co with the same brush stroke. You have every right to do that but with the logic you use you are painted in the same light and at the end of the day you face the same destructive nature in which you think we are engaged in.
I welcome the exchange of ideas (yours included) because it is in broadening our views that we can grow in the journey of life. At the end of the day our beliefs or non-beliefs will have nothing to do with whether or not God accepts us (and even that is a belief).
Peace,
Cliff
What does a person do when what they love is being attacked? What do you do? The belief in Grace is shared on this site. WHEN SOMEONE COMES HERE AND I SAY IT AGAIN WHEN SOMEONE COMES HERE and bashes the people who want to share their love what are you suppose to do? Do you defend it? Do you protect it? Do you ignore it and hope it goes away?
I watched a show today about a mother and father who were involved in a religous cult. The Father believed he was the chosen one and with that belief he did the unspeakable. He molested and beat his children. He threatened his oldest with her life and turned her into the abuser as well. He had her beat the other children and all of this was done for the sake of religion. Thankfully someone stepped in and saved those children and put the mother and father behind bars.
I don’t believe this site was created to cause debates, but that is what happens when people like Jack come here and hates on others for not seeing things the way he sees them. For me Jack is the perfect example of someone who is involved in what I consider a cult and he has come to this site purposely to stir the pot out of anger and that is exactly what he has done… angered and hurt humans. He has attacked and belittled good people here and for what reason?
I quote Jack, “Yep, by all means I want the same peace these two sad, lawless, cowardly and deceitful characters have.” (referring to some people here on Boldgrace)
Yes, Jack has turned this to shit. SO what do we do…protect? Do we get involved like the police did when they saved those children from their own mother and father? Hell YES. I will protect and I will defend. Jack doesn’t deserve to know the wonderful people here at Boldgrace and until he can show us his perfection the way God sees his perfection then I say see ya later and go back to where you came from cause you bore me with your hate.
Mindy, VERY WELL SAID, thankyou. Because he first loved us – Sue
Bruce, I couldn’t have said it better myself! The drama that has been going on the last few weeks made me feel like I’ve stepped back into high school. As we approach Thanksgiving let’s not forget who we are in Christ regardless of where we are in our beliefs. I haven’t gotten involved in the debate and refuse to do so myself but I do encourage everyone to read Mike’s Spiritual Rights article http://www.gospelrevolution.com/spiritual_rights.htm
May the rest of the world catch on.
Kiara, Thanks for the article and reminder of where all stand before God. Because he first loved us – Sue
Kiara, thanks so much for the link to Mike’s article from 2001. His call for “a spiritual rights movement” is so key to being able to learn from one another. Such a movement amongst us “can never include views of spiritual superiority.” Yes, it is exciting and inspirational to have something great to say. And, of course, you have to express it!
Then… in turn, as we express our understanding and grow in our ability to articulate what we see… someone is going to disagree. It is not wrong to challenge someone’s doctrine or treatise. I would always I hope I could do so with some class.
By the way… I have never seen “spiritual superiority” expressed by the boldgrace team.
“Yes, Jack has turned this to shit.”
No I don’t think so. I just showed you the dirty diapers and warned others of the deceit here. As I said earlier below in a comment to this same blog which George had to deceitfully interject his thoughts into my comment.
(NO DECEIT here Jackie! I interject comments into yours openly and never claim they are yours. Your “deceit” statement is you projecting yourself onto us again. By the way for you Jackie to talk of deceit is like the pot calling the kettle black. I encourage our readers to go to your blog and read some of the comments by your readers and see the depression and doubt that is rampant in your followers. – Added by Geo)
Which by the way, when you are “lawless” that which is never ever done on any forum or site is winked at, as it is here.
(SORRY Jackie you swing and whiff again – Added by Geo)
Maybe I can post this again, speaking to God’s purpose, without some one deceitfully adding their thoughts under my name and to my comment.
(We will add to ALL of your comments every time you mislead Jackie- Added by Geo)
For me such a practice is the low water mark for the dishonesty that shrouds this misapplied “it is finished/ I am perfect, your perfect” message.
(That is your opinion and we respect your right to your opinion but opinions are not truth they are opinion.- Added by Geo)
As I said earlier:
“He came and he shined a light. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
(Are you “He” Jackie? – Added by Geo)
They who said, “we are perfect and judge no man” were found lacking on both accounts.
(Again you don’t follow what was said Jackie. Here is what I said in response to you ….. Ah you missed it! We NEVER said we don’t judge! At least I have not. But we have said that we judge no man or woman’s standing before God or as Paul put it, “we judge no one after the flesh”. Then again maybe we do judge others. We judge them to be righteous, perfect and holy. Like Paul said quit making a outward judgment and judge righteously. Which is what we have done here at Bold Grace we have judged righteously i.e all are judged as RIGHTEOUS!
That even includes you Jackie! Good News ! – Added by Geo)
The “New Tolerance/ I’m perfect, your perfect” charade has once again been exposed as willful and disobedient children in dirty diapers cry unfair at the man holding the mirror in front of them.”
(I will repeat again for you since you missed it the first time you posted this response…….You are projecting yourself and your feelings of unworthiness on us again Jackie. Come on Home my little brother you are safe and the Father is waiting to Welcome you. – Added by Geo)
I love you guys (disdain the spirits), but I also know no one gets out of this heretical doctrine you espouse …….. not during this age. Thus I expose the absurdity and deceit that cloaks this New Age Occultic message, that others might see and be saved.
(Jackie, again I repeat that people should go to your site and read the comments by your followers and see the doubt and despair they talk of in their walk. Here is the link to Jack’s site. http://jack-sonshine.blogspot.com/ – Added by Geo)
Jack
“May His grace be given to you to leave and never come back…
Eliyah”
Ditto.
Jason
I have a longing to get you all out of ‘the trap’ you’ve fallen into. Marco saw what was happening clearly when he came back from his hunting trip.You are not speaking from the nature of the one deep within your hearts, so although you long to love each other, you cannot. Your words lack power and authority because you are speaking from the wrong source – your heads have got in the way, blocking your vision. It’s that taught way of thinking that we’ve all been trained in that’s putting you crook. It’s the wrong source of food. You cannot lift up your fellowman and feed him unless you go deeper within yourselves and connect to the real source of life. You know it all theoretically (in your head) because I’ve just looked back at previous months’ posts, and there are signs of life through it all, but presently you are not experiencing it. There is only one way to get out of this trap and that is to METANOIA. Change your way of thinking. Turn from your head to your heart and start speaking from the nature of the Father. It’s a much higher realm and the BIG PICTURE will unfold before your eyes. Your hearts will start ‘burning within you’ as you begin to see what the Father has in store for you. No more stumbling around in a pit, you’ve hurt each other enough. There’s a whole world of innocent hurting people out there that need your help desperately. JC said to feed the sheep, and I know this is your desire but to do that you have to connect to the House of Bread, and the River of Life. It’s all WITHIN YOU.
I have been sending copies of some of the posts that are on Boldgrace to a friend of mine through email as he has no access to the internet. He enjoys reading them and today he responded to me by email and asked if I would place his comment on this post regarding a few of the comments expressed on this post. This is from my friend Bill.
WELL! ……….. The grace of GOD is really starting to come through now, isn’t it……..? AMAZING
I’m glad I’ve come to the point of seeing redeemed people everywhere I look, bars, church, shopping malls, even CLIFF & JACK!
I’m reminded of Paul’s teaching…. There is neither Jews Greek bond or free male or female for we are all one in CHRIST
Our personal views or OPINION doesn’t changed the Covenant GOD made with ABRAHAM 430 years before the law came to declare us all equal in CHRIST in spite of our different views & opinions !!
Our energy should be used directing poor lost confused souls by the the Evangelical church in thinking that they would never be good enough to be accepted by the grace of GOD, That indeed THEY ARE!!! ……………. Opinions just doesn’t change that….. And of course that’s another opinion, MINE! …………. That’s how God is speaking to me RIGHT NOW!
My belief system is now @ a 10 out of 10 because He’s revealed to me that CLIFF or JACK or anybodies opinions doesn’t change HIS OPINION ABOUT ME! …………. THAT my friend is the good news!
BILL
Here is the message and why does it ring true.
I sincerely believe that we will be judged by the Lord if we do not start to cry out for truth and the clear, unmarred image and likeness of our Father.
I say all of this in love, with fear and trembling, my head bowed low before the Lord. I will not be a part of this abomination of worshipping the creature over the Creator. We are not finished, we are not fully refined, there is more to be done in us, glories that have yet to be revealed, bodies to be changed, natures to be changed, a new language to learn, our vision to be extended. I could not tell you any different even if my life depended upon it. There are yet thrones to come down, old heavens to be burned up, memories to be healed, roots to be pulled up, walls to be built, dragons to be slain, love to be expressed. So much more to be done, that time or strength would not allow me to tell about it. We have only had a glimpse, a mere drop on our tongue of all that He is and all that He wants us to become. What can I say to convince you of this? How can I persuade you that to think all is finished in this present state and condition would be to rob you of your inheritance in Christ Jesus, our Lord and Pattern? How could we be so deceived as to think that we are presently anything like what we have been designed to be in God? It is your false self that tries to convince you of this. It is the God-Complex that has plagued men of every generation, an inherent desire, adamic in it’s core, that wants to be it’s own creator, the creature forever trying to supplant it’s Lord and King out of a genetic and psychic driven ego, always belittling the authority of it’s Maker, looking for a way to define it’s own destiny and become it’s own architect. Can you see it? Can you hear it’s subtle, cunning voice hissing like an ancient serpent in our ears?
Cast your cares upon Jesus, look upon His beautiful face, for He loves you endlessly and will not leave your soul in hell. Be restored in truth and purity. Leave the citadel of the profane, separate yourself from the ungodly, get up into the mountain of the Lord and sit at His feet and learn of His ways. Truth has come and will lead us home. (Torango)
The “lawless New Agers/it is finished crowd use Christian terminology and emphasize love, love, love and it sounds wonderful to those who have not known love from the church system. But that love is from the wrong tree and will bring no life. There is a counterfeit love and it is born of the latent power of the soul. This false love is of a subtle spirit but if one be surrendered to Christ Jesus the hiss of this dark false love can be heard. The love that Jesus offers is the only love that is real and is able to change your life! And there in lies the dilemma with the “it is finished” crowd; they want to revel in their unchanging state calling it perfect. Well, the scriptures are clear, “grace isn’t just about redemption, it includes the power to change!”
It cost our Christ, the loss of all to possess us and so shall it cost us loss of all, to possess our Christ. It’s his life for ours. “We die, he lives, and then the mystery is that we live again.” This is the way of the Cross.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Cor 1:18
Jack
Thank you for sharing your opinion with us, Jack.
Jack if you noticed I did not add comment to your last comment. The reason? You presented your case without demeaning speech or attitude and that although I do not agree with a lot of what you said I can respect you for the manor in which you said it. Thank You for a well thought out response.
Peace
Geo
Jack, It was nice to see you share your opinion in a respectful manner. As Geo said, we don’t agree but this site is not about agreement, it is about sharing who we are and the desire to help each other along the way in a kind and thoughtful manner.
I say this will every bit of love in me: If you could just share your views minus the personal and verbal attacks you might find we could actually be good friends even when we don’t agree. That has always been my goal for you Jack, but as the post says I won’t be bullyed and attacked personally without challenge. That has nothing to do with God’s love for either of us because I don’t think He loves any of us based on our performance, but I do think we were put here on earth to learn how to get along with each other and love each other in spite of our differences.
I wish all of you a very happy Thanksgiving and that includes Jack and Eliyah.
Peace,
Cliff
“TO THAT PERSON: (you know who you are) STOP THE BULLYING. YOU ARE VERY SICK AND IN NEED OF HELP. PLEASE SEEK OUT A QUALIFIED HEALTH PROFESSIONAL THAT CAN HELP YOU DEAL WITH YOUR CONTROL ISSUES AND FEARS. PLEASE KNOW THAT WE WISH FOR YOU HEALTH AND HAPPINESS, BUT WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO BE A BULLY UNCHALLENGED.”
————————————————————————
Cliff, there is as much bullying here in this paragraph of yours as all of Jacks put together, if you cannot see it atleast realize others can. Also Geo editing Jacks posts is pretty lame indeed, what you say Jack is projecting back at himself you guys are doing the very same thing by responding as such.
Calling him sick and in need of professional help for his sickness just because he has a different view and opinion of God (and His supposed plans) than yours is a low blow kick that is pretty ugly to witness. It is a personal attack that sits him in the mental illness chair while you sit yourself in the right minded chair. Not just you but Geo and Jeff have thrown many a firey dart back at the Jackster. No offence to you guys, but if one took the time to consider there are other views and opinions about God that perhaps are no less than theirs, just different, that one may be far less likely to respond likewise. I say this to you as well Jack, you are obviously very intelligent and passionate about your understanding of things, perhaps you may want to consider not being so offensive in delivering your message, most can’t see past the offense to view the message behind it.
When we can learn to not take personal the attacks of others we do well, but as long as we continue to justify our unchristlike response we move not ahead. OOOhhh this person is here attacking my belief system ARRRrr how dare thee?! When we think we need to protect our belief systems this will always be the outcome.
Jack is right in a sense, we all have a sickness, one could call that sickness is called sin. When we move beyond yesterdays god lanuage and understand sin not as offending the ruling male deity in the sky mentality, and us poor sinners in need of redemption from said angry being, but sin as the offence when one human deminishes the life of another, we realize we, as a humanity, have a long way to go yet. Jesus pointed to this “way”. In him this “way” was manifest, in us likewise as followers. To love wastefully and give ourselves away, not get distracted with doctrines and preceived right thinking, we are not our thoughts, we are not our beliefs, Consciousness(identity) is beyond all that.
The time is not to consider the (preceived) work of the cross at some other period of time in history, and thus believe this or that about it, but the time is to allow the cross to work now, in us, as we learn to unidentify with ego and its forms, to let go of self and allow the formless I AM to work and we learn to walk in the very mystery and wonder of God as a living reality, now. Sacred Now is all one will ever have. Christ is crucified now, we are crucified with him now. Its not about an event, its about learning to breathe God, now.
As Brennan Manning states beautifully:
“Words are feeble and inadequate, as are all human words, because Mystery is spoiled by a word.”
Gregory of Nyssa stated:
“Concepts create idols, only wonder understands anything”
In this I stress the letting go of God concepts and perceptions, because the expirence in God that is not bound to concepts and belief systems is worth the release, we find ourselves no longer with the need to defend, no longer with the need to resist.
Bruce I really enjoyed reading your comments and am encouraged by them, thanks. Cliff and Co, please take no offence I think we are mature enough to move on and continue sharing our expression and expirence in this walk of life,
In Christ
Marco
Cliff Wrote:
I wish all of you a very happy Thanksgiving and that includes Jack and Eliyah.
Yes Indeed!
Peace
Geo
Thank You Marco for your thoughts
Peace
Geo
PS: I started writing the above post earlier today, before the above postings were there, left the computer for the afternoon, came back and picked up where I left off, its great to see some getting along!
Marco
Funny how time has a way of doing that!
Thanks again
Peace
Geo
Marco Wrote: “Cliff, there is as much bullying here in this paragraph of yours as all of Jacks put together, if you cannot see it atleast realize others can. Also Geo editing Jacks posts is pretty lame indeed, what you say Jack is projecting back at himself you guys are doing the very same thing by responding as such.”
Marco, This is the problem with the internet. You only see words and not the person behind them. If you knew me at all you would know I said those words with nothing but genuine sincerity and without any animosity. Explain how those words are “BULLYING”? And if you think they are then how are you any different? Let me say that I genuinly appreciate your thoughts and your opinions but it seems you think you are somewhat above the rest of us when we are simply offering our thoughts and opinions. As I said to Jack in my last comment to him: “I say this will every bit of love in me: If you could just share your views minus the personal and verbal attacks you might find we could actually be good friends even when we don’t agree. I feel the same toward all that visit here. And even if you attack me I won’t be your enemy but I will respond in the most loving way I can. My conscience is clear that I have done exactly that.
And by the way: I never called Jack sick and in need of professional help because he differs with us (those are your words). In fact I never even used Jack’s name. That means to me that you automatically assumed it was him (I wonder why?) I would never call anyone sick and in need of help because they differ. I would tell someone they are sick and in need of help if they bully others on this site by calling them false teachers, dishonest, lower then vomit, suicidal, sissys, liars, etc……I think you get the picture.
It has always been and still is my greatest goal to provide an environment where anyone can come to this site and share their views regardless of how much I might personally disagree with them. That does not mean I will allow the ugliness that we have seen the last month. Again, I am sorry you can not see the difference.
Peace,
Cliff
my bad I guess, peace out, love ya
Marco
Question for you Jack.
You wrote:
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Geo here: Jack are you saying Jesus did NOT destroy death?
If He did not destroy death then He was NOT Messiah and if He did destroy death which I believe He did then ALL things have been put under His feet and it is finished.
Peace
Geo
Jack
Yes or No?
Peace
Geo
I see you guys are still Loving everyone.
That’s right John.
We are.
Thanks for the comment.
Peace
Geo
Yes or No Jack?
Peace
Geo
Perhaps someone will start a post entitled “My Thanksgiving List” or “Thanksgiving Memories”? After all, it’s that time of year and sniping at each other is only a distraction from the positive side of this season. Don’t you think?
I wish ALL a very happy Thanksgiving. May knowing that we will not always be in human conflict bring peace to you. Don’t forget to say “GRACE” over your holiday dinner. Because he first loved us – Sue
I like this blog personally – namely this blog topic – gets at the heart of the problem – acknowledges it exists – and dives in head first.
What can truly be said about the problems that have arisen in the past month or so – except what is more important – the human or the theology?
I really liked Marco’s 2 speeches in this blog – namely this line – it was somewhat perfect – “but sin as the offence when one human deminishes the life of another, we realize we, as a humanity, have a long way to go yet. Jesus pointed to this “way”. In him this “way” was manifest, in us likewise as followers. To love wastefully…” (Marco)
I know we need to address some of the bullying that has happened around here – and no one wants to censor someone – I think we all hate that action equally. But I see no problem with calling a problem what it is – a problem that needed to be acknowledge and ‘put into the light”…now we all see it and can talk it over.
Mindy, I watched that Phil episode last night also – horrible horrible thing that happened to those people – and is a wake-up call for how religion can be used in a very ‘ugly and evil’ way. It slightly relates to this post because – some of us feel this is what is happening – in the name of God. I think that is something we ‘guard against’ and both sides in this debate feel they are ‘defending the best position’. Defend peace.
Jack, I know I for one have had some problems with some of your speech from a blog post a while back where you kind of slammed Cliff with a harsh accusation (which I will not repeat here).
In all honesty, I am sure you think you are defending the best cause also – on behalf of what you believe at this time in your life. You see the problems with ‘easy believer-ism’ and possibly some of the Universalist message – I hear ya on some of this. Faith is good – love is greater. We need to love those we disagree with also – we cannot slip into actions that Eliyah would say the ‘flesh’ would committ.
I am asking you raise the bar higher in these conversations and do not slip into ways of the flesh – so that we can become those lights we don’t need to hide. I believe in you – you can love in a greater way than before…and if not – may God grant you an experience to see this or deal this kind of love out.
I love this blog – lol.
I will repeat again “the ways of the flesh” are these, trying to seek God’s approval by what we think, say and do. Or seeking God’s disapproval of others because of what they think, say or do. That is what Paul meant by pleasing the flesh. The biggest temptation one has is to do those things. That was what Satan tempted Jesus with in the desert. Satan tried to get Jesus to prove His sonship and Jesus would have NONE of it! Jack and his followers have fallen to the temptation that Jesus resisted. The continue to try to perfect that which is already perfected. Thus denying the Cross of Christ.
Peace
Geo
Why keep up the back and forth, guys!?
Geo and the rest of the folks here on BG: You all are not going to convince Jack of anything.
Jack and friends: You all are not going to convince anyone on this site of anything.
Both sides would almost be better served by banging their collective heads against a brick wall. It would accomplish about as much for all involved.
There is a verse in one of Paul’s letters about living in peace with our fellow man AS MUCH AS IT IS POSSIBLE. Many times it’s better for opposing parties to part ways, for the sake of peace.
Then again, maybe peace with each other is not what you guys are after….lol. Who knows?
Jason
I am beginning to agree Jason and most likely soon this will all end.
Peace
Geo
“I am beginning to agree Jason and most likely soon this will all end” (Geo)
Geo’s pronunciation/prophecy about the ‘end of the world’ (lol).
Jack is a stubborn one – if someone refuses to acknoeledge your point of view as valid there is really not much of a conversation going on. In all honesty, I would rather blog here because of the loving and open attitude as compared to Jack’s site – kind of accusatory and less open. It’s too bad Jack doesn’t know the conservative wings of this faith – they might be a thing of the ‘past’.
Hi everyone!
We are Aussies and don’t know much about Thanksgiving. Can someone tell us a little bit about it?
For Jeff & Kate
http://link.history.com/services/link/bcpid1902518783/bclid1672079702/bctid1586348651
hey Cliff, I was thinking, you are so right about this problem that is the internet, it is so easy to misunderstand what another is trying to say sometimes we get it all bass ackwards, I apoligize for being critical, I do not consider myself above others, but I appreciate you pointing that out and will make effort to put more consideration in my comments. You are a kind and gentle soul I can sense that, thank you for taking the time to respond.
We many not see eye to eye on all things, but in the context of what really matters – that the love of God includes all – I think we are joined at the hip, so to speak.
SocietyVs, you tidy things up nicely, great to hear and be encouraged by your thoughts,
In Christ
Marco
Geo,
“Doubt and Despair”? I think you are mistaking that for the searching and hungering for a deeper walk that goes with the territory. If some share the the thoughts and processings by which we arrive at reassurance and renewal, well, what is wrong with that? Praise God for a format in which we may do so, since we all (on this site and the other) seem to have left the traditional church life. Do you never wonder at God’s workings in your life?
Diana
Thank You for your thoughts.
To answer your question. No I don’t ever wonder about God’s workings in my life. His workings were completed in me 2008 years ago in the body of Christ. I am free to be free.
Peace
Geo