A Jewish Man’s First Bacon

See if you can relate

Peace
Geo

Geo Nov 29th 2008 09:27 pm Contributors, Geo, Mercy, Subjects 25 Comments Trackback URI Comments RSS

25 Responses to “A Jewish Man’s First Bacon”

  1. Cliffon 29 Nov 2008 at 10:16 pm link comment

    Geo, I can relate on so many levels. It’s amazing how just the act of eating a bacon cheeseburger can be such a freeing spiritual experience.

  2. shellyon 29 Nov 2008 at 10:32 pm link comment

    The video isn’t available now.

    I should add I’m doing well. I still read; I suppose I don’t have much to contribute these days. But that’s alright, methinks.

  3. geoon 30 Nov 2008 at 6:57 am link comment

    I re-posted it from another site Shelly. Try it now

    Peace
    Geo

  4. geoon 30 Nov 2008 at 7:23 am link comment

    Cliff
    I too could relate to this story in getting free from religion.

    Shelly
    Its enough to know that you are still around. Hope all is well with you this Holiday Season.

    Peace
    Geo

  5. Connie Lardon 30 Nov 2008 at 9:27 am link comment

    Actually that guy kind of gave me the creeps. I’ve just never heard someone discuss helping to shipwreck someone’s faith in such a cavalier way. Very sad.

  6. Cliffon 30 Nov 2008 at 11:12 am link comment

    Connie, I think the part that some of us related to was the breaking away from following the parts of religion that have no meaning or value to our lives. I’m sure there is much that I would not agree with if I was having a conversation with that man, but that does not stop me from seeing the truths that he has seen and is willing to share.

  7. Sueon 30 Nov 2008 at 12:06 pm link comment

    We must realize each person will have a different set of circumstances that bring them to a new way of thinking, which usually starts in their own brain sometime in youth. I think it is ok to stay in ones traditional way of thinking as well. Everything is needed (all religion & other thought) to provide a place for all people and where they are in the life journey. I can relate to the tape above. When I was young I did poorly in school and daydreamed alot because Jesus was coming so I did not see the point in schoolwork or even dreaming of a life on earth. I was pissed when I found out had I developed my talents I would have been a more content human being. We humans sometimes take a long time to learn how to shed early taught life concepts by others. It is very hard to find out what we really think and believe as we have to muddle thru so much garbage first. I once told my parents I did not get why God would write a book and chance each person could or would read it instead of telling each person as they entered life what he expected of them. As I got older I realized he had given each of us a brain that no one else could see or hear what we were thinking, (so I could think differently while being Made to do something else) so I guess he is telling each of us in his own way. I am reading “Jesus for the Non-Religious” by Spong who is a Catholic Bishop – interesting – Because he first loved us – Sue

  8. Cliffon 30 Nov 2008 at 12:37 pm link comment

    Sue, Good analogy. I especially liked this statement: “Everything is needed (all religion & other thought) to provide a place for all people and where they are in the life journey.”

  9. geoon 30 Nov 2008 at 2:38 pm link comment

    It’s funny how we as people can see something and see direct opposite things. I saw the video as not wrecking someone’s faith but liberating a soul from religion and its evil grasp. But I do understand how one can see it as a shipwreck too. That is what I love about Bold Grace. It allows us to embrace both and.

    Peace
    Geo

  10. Sueon 30 Nov 2008 at 5:47 pm link comment

    If a person makes a choice to end one belief in favor of another it is not a shipwreck. The man Ben was talking about came to an understanding that HE no longer believed in Judaism and wanted to eat food that was denied him in that religion. He made this known to friends who agreed to eat with him. It would have been a shipwreck if he was forced to eat against his will. Would it have been considered a shipwreck if he had converted to Christianity and people celebrated that with him? He would still be leaving one faith for another. – Because he first loved us – Sue

  11. Bruceon 30 Nov 2008 at 10:02 pm link comment

    As I listened to the story, my mind drifted a bit, and I found myself thinking about my own life, and how I thought I was safe because I obeyed my fears. But, after many, many years I’ve discovered that obeying my fears only delivered me deeper into fear. Disgusted by what my life had become, I was given the rare opportunity to have my slate wiped clean. I thought about where my fear came from, and saw that it was all from outside of me. I found the freedom to walk away from all I thought was making me safe, and began dropping all the fear-baggage that had weighed heavily on me all those years. And how refreshing and renewing it was to begin listening to the voice within, and turn away from the voices that said, “aren’t you afraid of what will happen if you don’t…….. ?”

    Now, life is not about what I don’t do, but about what I do freely through love.

  12. Sueon 01 Dec 2008 at 7:42 am link comment

    Bruce, “Pefect love cast out all fear” we read in the bible. It would be wonderful if everyone could live like you describe your new life. Could you elaborate on “Disgusted by what my life had become, I was given the rare opportunity to have my slate wiped clean.” My ? is if it is a rare opportunity then it is not available to all? Our human condition is that we all have to rely on the mercy of each other and therefore always at risk of physical hurt or death at the will of another. I can only control myself. I cannot be absolutely sure what I would do under all circumstances. I would love to be where you describe to be. Sorry, my human side is showing. Because he first loved us – Sue

  13. Connie Lardon 01 Dec 2008 at 8:12 am link comment

    What I meant by shipwrecking his faith was that the guy apparently went from being an orthodox Jew to atheism. To me, that’s different than simply coming out of religion while still retaining his faith in God. To me, it’s a very sad thing to lose faith in God. So, I couldn’t relate to anything else because of that overarching theme. (Not to mention the picture that came to mind of those guys gorging on all that animal fat, which will also eventually wreck his health! :) )

  14. geoon 01 Dec 2008 at 8:32 am link comment

    Connie Wrote:
    “To me, that’s different than simply coming out of religion while still retaining his faith in God”

    This statement is one of the things I (geo) believe has caused many a person to leave their faith over. If we must keep “our” faith then we will NEVER find the faith “of” Christ and or God. It is not our faith in God that matters but it is His faith in us. Now I know that goes against everything that religion teaches. But it is when we find out what His value and opinion of us is regardless of what we “believe” about Him, it is at that point we find rest from our work and embrace the work of God. His faith in us is perfect because of the actions of Jesus. The man that was talked about in the video left his faith and became a so-called atheist because he did not know of God’s True view of him as a child of the King. If this man had been taught since birth of his value and worth to God and God’s faith in him regardless of his words, actions and deeds instead of being taught that he had to follow all of these laws, rules and regulations I can guarantee he would not have walked away from faith because that faith would have been God’s. And when you see your faith as being God’s their is nothing to reject only embrace.

    Peace
    Geo

  15. Sueon 01 Dec 2008 at 8:47 am link comment

    Connie, I listened to the tape again and now see what you mean. His faith could not have been shipwrecked unless he wanted that to happen. To me atheism is a place of wandering while one is intellectually trying to figure out what God is. No one is really an atheist as all obey the laws of God – meaning what God has set in motion man cannot change -ie. death etc., so man obeys because he has no choice. God loves him whether he likes it or knows it or accepts it or understands it or not. We all obey the laws of nature but we all may not understand the God of nature of which we are his image. I believe that man will also move on to better understanding of God and Ben is just a stepping stone. Ben is giving himself so much credit because he has not moved on from his self righteousness yet. If the truth was known about every human there is not one person who has not had times of doubt about God. That is how I see atheism. I could be wrong. Because he first loved us – Sue

  16. marco albrighton 01 Dec 2008 at 9:17 am link comment

    O my, I really enjoyed that clip, I sure can relate on many levels, the prime being my departure from theism as a way of defining/understanding/relating to God. It was, and still is, a trembling, wonder full experience.

    In regards to a supposed shipwreck of this mans faith I just don’t see it, does not the experience of freedom as an atheist trump the experience of religious bondage as an orthodox Jew?

    I am not saying that is the experience of all orthodox Jews, no more than it is the experience of all fundamentalist Christians, or Muslims etc…

    With an open mind and heart there is much to learn and unlearn from all walks of faith/no faith. That is all part of the journey as it relates to the whole.

  17. Bruceon 01 Dec 2008 at 9:30 am link comment

    Sue asked what “Disgusted by what my life had become, I was given the rare opportunity to have my slate wiped clean” meant…

    I came to a point in my life where I realized that I had put all my faith in religion and its perceived ability to keep me safe. But, when I saw what I had become because of it, I became disgusted. Religion had become more important than people. Religion became the center of everything I was, and I followed it right into an anger for everything “not religious”. Then, I began to see myself through the eyes of others, and I saw a religious zealot. I used it like a hammer to destroy (at least in my mind) those who did not conform to my idea of obedience and discipline. That view of myself sickened me, and to a degree, still does. I am ashamed of who I was and what I had become. I guess this is why I am so adamant about trying to convince people to abandon their religion and simply follow their hearts (through which God speaks).

    I think you misunderstood me about “wiping the slate clean” being a rare opportunity. I don’t think it’s rare among people overall, but rare within a person’s life. It is certainly a possibility within each person’s life, and probably happens more often than we can know, but I have only seen it happen a handful of times. And by “wiping clean”, I’m not talking about a subtle change in the way we think about God… I’m referring to a total abandonment of everything we see as “truth” and starting over again. It may not even be something we can do on our own, but rather something that happens to us as a result of the events in our lives. I never planned on going through that. I didn’t chase after it. It came to me. But, I think one has to come to a breaking point in their faith, and instead of fighting the collapse, let it crumble. I don’t think that crumbling is often a sudden thing either, I think it’s a process. Some experience it over a short period of time, and some take years. And I’m not sure the process is finished in my life either. Maybe it never will be. But the thing I feel confidently is that the Source of all Life has pulled me into new way of thinking that has brought me into a level of peace that I had not known beforehand.

    It seems like hardly a day goes by that I don’t sense some deepening of peace in my life. And that brings a daily expectation that makes the journey even sweeter. I wake up each day hearing God saying “let’s go deeper today. Come along with me, and be a part of who I am. Watch with wonder as amazing things happen all around you, and know that I am in the middle of it all!”

    The journey I’m on now is not one of faith or courage. It is a wide-eyed recognition of life as it unfolds around me, drawing me deeper into itself without fearfullness… inviting me to experience a safety and solitude that is peaceful. No, my flesh has not become “perfected”, but I feel a wonderful change from where I was. Maybe for the first time in my life, I am happy, settled, and content. Not perfectly, but growing into it daily.

    Life was within me all along, it just took a “breaking away” to begin to see it. So many things in this world want to control the Life within, but changing the way we look at the world, can minimize the effect it has on us. I believe this is the Kingdom of Heaven, and it lives within each of us. I’ve heard it said that we all make our own reality, and I couldn’t agree with that more.

    Be of good cheer, the best is yet to come!

  18. Sueon 01 Dec 2008 at 9:40 am link comment

    Bruce, Thank you for that beautiful explanation. Because he first loved us – Sue

  19. TitforTaton 01 Dec 2008 at 9:54 am link comment

    His faith in us is perfect because of the actions of Jesus(Geo)

    As long as people make statements such as this, they will forever be tied to the “Religious”. The closest any of us can come to describing or naming source would be the generic term “God”, any other is just religion raising its ugly head.

  20. Sueon 01 Dec 2008 at 10:18 am link comment

    Titfortat, “God” comes from the bible just like Jesus. I wonder if the bible never existed what name mankind would give our supreme being? Because he first loved us – Sue

  21. TitforTaton 01 Dec 2008 at 10:29 am link comment

    lol….Sue, God is an English term and if you remember correctly the bible was not written in english. We use the term God when we are translating religious texts, and not only the bible. And by the way, there are religious texts that predate the bible.

  22. Sueon 01 Dec 2008 at 12:04 pm link comment

    Titfortat, Thanks for the update. Because he first loved us – Sue p.s. What does lol mean?

  23. Bruceon 01 Dec 2008 at 12:48 pm link comment

    Sue, that is e-shorthand for “laugh out loud”.

  24. Sueon 01 Dec 2008 at 1:49 pm link comment

    Bruce, Thanks. I’m reading Jesus for the Non-Religious by Spong – Your experience sounds like a death/resurrection – much like I think this book is about to unveil. Have you read this book? Because he first loved us – Sue

  25. shellyon 03 Dec 2008 at 5:17 pm link comment

    I think it’s a bit of everything.

    On one hand, it’s about an Orthodox Jew deconverting from Judaism and renouncing a belief in God. On the other hand, it’s about a young man becoming loose from the ropes of religion and finally being free to simply be.

    To me, that’s different than simply coming out of religion while still retaining his faith in God. (Connie)

    Well, was it “his” faith to begin with? According to the Bible, it is God himself who gives people the faith to believe; and it’s also God himself who (wait for it!) causes unbelief, not to mention it’s his grace and his faith that saves us, nothing of ourselves.

    I’m reminded a little bit of something Martin Zender wrote, in regards to salvation…

    Does an account of your salvation begin with the word “I” or with the word “God?” I hope that it begins with the word “God.” If it does, then you have rejected the false doctrine of the free will of man and now believe in the free will of God. This is a good thing.

    http://www.martinzender.com/Zenderature/free_will_and_the_oh_well_creed.htm

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