Comments on: More or Less? http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/ It's more wonderful than you can imagine! Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:53:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sue http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5120 Sue Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:05:32 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5120 Barry, Anything is possible - I, as all others, only speculate and try to work out what makes sense to me. My posts are what I think and feel from my life so far, I do not claim perfect understanding or knowledge. So, my take of a 'new heaven and new earth' would be free of living in this knowledge of good and evil earth. Right now I think we have Gods promise of a new heaven and new earth, when it comes to full fruition we won't be in good/evil earth. And yes, it could be a process. I don't know for sure. Do you know for sure? Because I am subject to this good and evil earth, I am many times full of doubt about everything. Sometimes angry. Sometimes feel lost. Sometimes exhilarated. Sometimes I know in my gut, truth. Sometimes I feel I know nothing. Sometimes I am happy or content. Sometimes sad and depressed. I am fully human and express that in many ways. All humans experience intuition, gut feelings, epiphanies, being inspired, ideas etc.etc.etc. Some here call it thinking from the heart. Perhaps all is just wishful thinking. I perfer to believe God loves me and has a wonderful blissful future prepared for all. Just my thoughts Because he first loved us - Sue Barry,

Anything is possible – I, as all others, only speculate and try to work out what makes sense to me. My posts are what I think and feel from my life so far, I do not claim perfect understanding or knowledge.

So, my take of a ‘new heaven and new earth’ would be free of living in this knowledge of good and evil earth. Right now I think we have Gods promise of a new heaven and new earth, when it comes to full fruition we won’t be in good/evil earth. And yes, it could be a process. I don’t know for sure. Do you know for sure?

Because I am subject to this good and evil earth, I am many times full of doubt about everything. Sometimes angry. Sometimes feel lost. Sometimes exhilarated. Sometimes I know in my gut, truth. Sometimes I feel I know nothing. Sometimes I am happy or content. Sometimes sad and depressed. I am fully human and express that in many ways. All humans experience intuition, gut feelings, epiphanies, being inspired, ideas etc.etc.etc. Some here call it thinking from the heart.
Perhaps all is just wishful thinking. I perfer to believe God loves me and has a wonderful blissful future prepared for all.

Just my thoughts

Because he first loved us –

Sue

]]> By: Barry http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5119 Barry Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:44:47 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5119 Quote Sue: Barry, I hope that this life is not the new. If so, then, there are some lucky bastards and some unlucky ones! What many describe as the FALL to me is not a fall but Gods willingness to let us SEE for ourselves how life is ‘knowing good and evil’ without true power to control it. I have hope and belief (however childish to some) God once again lets us into the Garden to walk with him in the cool of the evening. When he does the tree of knowledge of good and evil will not be there as it was cut down by Jesus Christ and not needed anymore.:) End quote. Hey Sue, If that tree was cut down then how is it that this life is not the new one? What would it then take for Jesus to still do for the new one to appear? Maybe the "new one" was a new beginning not an instant utopia. Maybe the "new one" is where the "Journey" now really begins as it was in a stagnant position previously. Barry Quote Sue:
Barry,

I hope that this life is not the new. If so, then, there are some lucky bastards and some unlucky ones!

What many describe as the FALL to me is not a fall but Gods willingness to let us SEE for ourselves how life is ‘knowing good and evil’ without true power to control it. I have hope and belief (however childish to some) God once again lets us into the Garden to walk with him in the cool of the evening. When he does the tree of knowledge of good and evil will not be there as it was cut down by Jesus Christ and not needed anymore.:)
End quote.

Hey Sue,
If that tree was cut down then how is it that this life is not the new one?
What would it then take for Jesus to still do for the new one to appear?

Maybe the “new one” was a new beginning not an instant utopia. Maybe the “new one” is where the “Journey” now really begins as it was in a stagnant position previously.

Barry

]]> By: Sue http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5118 Sue Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:49:42 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5118 Cliff, I don't think this life is about "mastering' pain or pleasure. We don't master that which we cannot control. Enduring pain does not make us master over it. If one is murdered they will never master it. Many people lose their minds after a horror event in their lives. I do not think they are beneath those who experience it differently. Many, many circumstances are involved that make an experience different for each person. Jesus raised Lazarus from the unseen, dead, and he was the same person. Jesus 'knew' and loved him. Jesus was raised from the unseen, dead but not corrupted and he was still Jesus but now also changed to enter heaven to be in the presence of God. I do not believe God recycles spirits into other bodies. What purpose would that serve and if it were true our memories would be unbearable. Because he first loved us Sue Cliff,

I don’t think this life is about “mastering’ pain or pleasure. We don’t

master that which we cannot control. Enduring pain does not make us

master over it. If one is murdered they will never master it. Many people

lose their minds after a horror event in their lives. I do not think they are

beneath those who experience it differently. Many, many circumstances

are involved that make an experience different for each person.

Jesus raised Lazarus from the unseen, dead, and he was the same

person. Jesus ‘knew’ and loved him. Jesus was raised from the unseen,

dead but not corrupted and he was still Jesus but now also changed to

enter heaven to be in the presence of God. I do not believe God recycles

spirits into other bodies. What purpose would that serve and if it were

true our memories would be unbearable.

Because he first loved us

Sue

]]> By: Sue http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5117 Sue Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:17:07 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5117 Barry, I hope that this life is not the new. If so, then, there are some lucky bastards and some unlucky ones! What many describe as the FALL to me is not a fall but Gods willingness to let us SEE for ourselves how life is 'knowing good and evil' without true power to control it. I have hope and belief (however childish to some) God once again lets us into the Garden to walk with him in the cool of the evening. When he does the tree of knowledge of good and evil will not be there as it was cut down by Jesus Christ and not needed anymore.:) Because he first loved us Sue Barry,

I hope that this life is not the new. If so, then, there are some lucky bastards and some unlucky ones!

What many describe as the FALL to me is not a fall but Gods willingness to let us SEE for ourselves how life is ‘knowing good and evil’ without true power to control it. I have hope and belief (however childish to some) God once again lets us into the Garden to walk with him in the cool of the evening. When he does the tree of knowledge of good and evil will not be there as it was cut down by Jesus Christ and not needed anymore.:)

Because he first loved us

Sue

]]> By: Sue http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5116 Sue Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:01:38 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5116 Tiefortat, "If we are eternal beings and we are OK in the grand scheme of things, then what is the purpose of pain and why do we feel we have to avoid it." Been thinking on this - my take is: While on earth we are not eternal beings otherwise we would not die. Our earth being (all that it entails i.e. physical body and mind that makes each of us unique)dies, and our life force goes back to God who gave it) Knowledge of good and evil makes us experience both. So, the purpose of pain is a part of this knowledge mankind sought while in the Garden of Eden. Mankind wanted to 'know' and experience this knowledge of both good and evil. There may not be a 'purpose' to pain other than we wanted to experience it and God let us. We as parents can hold back what our child is allowed to do only so long then whether we like it or not they will experience what they choose and some other junk just happens because no one has control over what another does. I try to avoid pain cause it hurts and makes me unhappy. But try as I might pain seems to find me, therefore, the human condition. I also think we may try to avoid pain because it is the teacher of evil. CRAZY?? Could be - just my thoughts and a 'mankind' stab at understanding. :) Because he first loved us - Sue Tiefortat,

“If we are eternal beings and we are OK in the grand scheme of things,

then what is the purpose of pain and why do we feel we have to avoid it.”

Been thinking on this – my take is: While on earth we are not eternal

beings otherwise we would not die. Our earth being (all that it entails i.e.

physical body and mind that makes each of us unique)dies, and our life

force goes back to God who gave it) Knowledge of good and evil makes

us experience both. So, the purpose of pain is a part of this knowledge

mankind sought while in the Garden of Eden. Mankind wanted to ‘know’

and experience this knowledge of both good and evil. There may not be

a ‘purpose’ to pain other than we wanted to experience it and God let us.

We as parents can hold back what our child is allowed to do only so long

then whether we like it or not they will experience what they choose and

some other junk just happens because no one has control over what

another does. I try to avoid pain cause it hurts and makes me unhappy.

But try as I might pain seems to find me, therefore, the human condition.

I also think we may try to avoid pain because it is the teacher of evil.

CRAZY?? Could be – just my thoughts and a ‘mankind’ stab at

understanding. :)

Because he first loved us -

Sue

]]> By: Audrey http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5085 Audrey Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:36:41 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5085 I'd like to lift the allegory of Adam and Eve up a little. It is there, preserved and the meaning hidden for aeons in time, simply to show us where we are today. It is a picture of us. In the realm of the Father, there is no death, no falling short of the Father's glory (sin) everything is good. Before time began he by his own will created a son in his likeness, with all the capabilities of the Father - omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence. In our way of thinking, Father is both male and female, able to reproduce Himself, by his own word, a son. . ‘God’ only created one Son. Out of that one Son came all mankind. In creation 'God' and man became ONE, functioning in communion and fellowship and 'God' manifested Himself through man in the allegorical ‘garden‘ in a body of light. We are told that God created HIM, male and female and told HIM to fill the earth. That God-man (Jehovah -divine part, Elohim - human part), formed from the dust like a potter moulding clay, a body. The vibrations from that body of light, slowed down and coagulated to become blood. But, that body had no ‘life’ in itself. He breathed into it lives. (plural). The ability to live to honour, or to dishonour . and man became a living soul. . At that point there was no separate Eve, she was in this ‘God-man’ as an integral part of Adam - his soul - the womb of creation. Eve as a separate entity was formed in the mind of Adam while he was asleep. When he looked at her he said ‘you are bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh‘, and Adam, not ‘God‘, called her Eve, ‘God’ called THEM Adam. From then humankind thought it was separate from the spirit. . Humankind is that woman Eve, thinking we are separate from the spirit (Adam). We think we can choose for ourselves our own destiny, forgetting that our destiny is already bound in another. We are already betrothed. Adam was not deceived in eating ‘the fruit’. He took the fruit knowing the consequence (in dying you will die), and that eventually, in time, he would take on himself this punishment for all mankind. He was at this point looking ahead to Gethsemane and ‘the cup‘ he would drink, for Christ is both the first and the last Adam. Redemption or the way back to being ONE with ‘God’ was provided for AT THAT TIME. The lamb was slain from that moment, a lamb ‘freshly slain‘. . The story has meaning for us in this way. We were created in the beginning in that WORD as spirit. At an appointed 'time' we were conceived in our mothers' womb. From our birth we mould ourselves on those we see around us, making for ourselves an identity from our imagination that we think we are. We do it completely without input from our spirit, using our five senses time and space to believe we are what we see in the mirror. We birth that persona and inherit that mind-set (our carnal nature) We forget that within us is the Jehovah part, our REAL Father in whose likeness we were created. . It is not until we begin to ‘wake up’ from that carnal sleep that we become aware of another nature within us, our real identity. David said, ‘I will be satisfied with Thy likeness when I awake’ and Paul also said awake to righteousness. Many today are discovering this awareness in the most natural way, it is turning them away from that old mind-set with rules and laws and traditions and psyche, to the new - a higher realm that operates from love. From this realm we see we are ONE with the Father, we are in him and he in us. Meantime that ‘spirit of Elijah’ that was in John, is presently all around us pointing out the difference between soul-living and heart-living, bringing us all into that ‘awareness‘. We are on a journey, the cloud is moving, the mists are disappearing and we are beginning to see clearly. Not from the old mind-set that's under death, but the new and living way. I’d like to lift the allegory of Adam and Eve up a little. It is there, preserved and the meaning hidden for aeons in time, simply to show us where we are today. It is a picture of us. In the realm of the Father, there is no death, no falling short of the Father’s glory (sin) everything is good. Before time began he by his own will created a son in his likeness, with all the capabilities of the Father – omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence. In our way of thinking, Father is both male and female, able to reproduce Himself, by his own word, a son.
.
‘God’ only created one Son. Out of that one Son came all mankind. In creation ‘God’ and man became ONE, functioning in communion and fellowship and ‘God’ manifested Himself through man in the allegorical ‘garden‘ in a body of light. We are told that God created HIM, male and female and told HIM to fill the earth. That God-man (Jehovah -divine part, Elohim – human part), formed from the dust like a potter moulding clay, a body. The vibrations from that body of light, slowed down and coagulated to become blood. But, that body had no ‘life’ in itself. He breathed into it lives. (plural). The ability to live to honour, or to dishonour . and man became a living soul.
.
At that point there was no separate Eve, she was in this ‘God-man’ as an integral part of Adam – his soul – the womb of creation. Eve as a separate entity was formed in the mind of Adam while he was asleep. When he looked at her he said ‘you are bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh‘, and Adam, not ‘God‘, called her Eve, ‘God’ called THEM Adam.
From then humankind thought it was separate from the spirit.
.
Humankind is that woman Eve, thinking we are separate from the spirit (Adam). We think we can choose for ourselves our own destiny, forgetting that our destiny is already bound in another. We are already betrothed. Adam was not deceived in eating ‘the fruit’. He took the fruit knowing the consequence (in dying you will die), and that eventually, in time, he would take on himself this punishment for all mankind. He was at this point looking ahead to Gethsemane and ‘the cup‘ he would drink, for Christ is both the first and the last Adam. Redemption or the way back to being ONE with ‘God’ was provided for AT THAT TIME. The lamb was slain from that moment, a lamb ‘freshly slain‘.
.

The story has meaning for us in this way. We were created in the beginning in that WORD as spirit. At an appointed ‘time’ we were conceived in our mothers’ womb. From our birth we mould ourselves on those we see around us, making for ourselves an identity from our imagination that we think we are. We do it completely without input from our spirit, using our five senses time and space to believe we are what we see in the mirror. We birth that persona and inherit that mind-set (our carnal nature) We forget that within us is the Jehovah part, our REAL Father in whose likeness we were created.
.
It is not until we begin to ‘wake up’ from that carnal sleep that we become aware of another nature within us, our real identity. David said, ‘I will be satisfied with Thy likeness when I awake’ and Paul also said awake to righteousness. Many today are discovering this awareness in the most natural way, it is turning them away from that old mind-set with rules and laws and traditions and psyche, to the new – a higher realm that operates from love. From this realm we see we are ONE with the Father, we are in him and he in us. Meantime that ‘spirit of Elijah’ that was in John, is presently all around us pointing out the difference between soul-living and heart-living, bringing us all into that ‘awareness‘. We are on a journey, the cloud is moving, the mists are disappearing and we are beginning to see clearly. Not from the old mind-set that’s under death, but the new and living way.

]]> By: Barry http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5084 Barry Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:28:21 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5084 Quote Sue: Barry, “Resurrection was not about reanimation of the physical but giving life to this life.” ???? That sounds good except where does that leave millions who die in the womb, as babies or children or young men and women or anyone who does not get to become an old person, in other words those that are denied the life? End quote. Resurrection was for humanity. Everyone now plays a part whenever one dies. Lest the one who lived to be 100 years claim that they had more life than the one who lived to 25 years old. We all contribute to human history. Before "history" could not effectually build upon itself. It did not and could not bare fruit. Since God has "made everything new", history has even with its ups and down and pendulum effects been building upon itself and evolving because life was given to this life. At no point in the past was there ever a sustainable and or evolving, women's rights consciousness. Now there is and it's not going to go away! At no point in the past was there ever a sustainable and or evolving, consciousness of slavery abolition. Now there is an it is not going away. The very basic point of just being "in this all together" is a growing and evolving consciousness. And it is not going away. Biblically speaking, it was not the life of post-mortem that was raised but the life of this life that was raised: Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVIETH? The law had no dominion over post-mortem continuity. Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate. Eze 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride, Sodom is returned to her former estate historically. That life here is what is in view. Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous GENERATION seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given TO IT, BUT the sign of the prophet Jonas: Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh SHALL RISE IN JUDGMENT WITH THIS GENERATION, and shall condemn it {judge it based upon the historical application of their past example of repentance}: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. Mat 12:42 The queen of the south SHALL RISE UP IN THE JUDGMENT WITH THIS GENERATION, and shall condemn it {judge it based upon the historical application of their past example}: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, A GREATER THAT SOLOMON [is] here. 1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished {historically}. 1Cr 15:19 IF IN THIS LIFE ONLY we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. {Paul's conclusions concerning the transition of the ages were applicable to "this life only".} 1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept {historically}. Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hbr 11:2 For by it the elders obtained A GOOD REPORT. {Historically in the history of eschatology IE the bible.} Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a GOOD REPORT through faith, received NOT THE PROMISE: Hbr 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, THAT THEY WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT. {ie They are make perfect historically thought the first-fruits resurrection in that generation.} Hades was an historical waiting place, not a waiting place of postmortem continuity. Postmortem continuity was never the issue. God evolving His creation was always the issue and giving life to this life made everything new. JMO of course. Barry Quote Sue:
Barry,

“Resurrection was not about reanimation of the physical but giving life to this life.”

???? That sounds good except where does that leave millions who die in the womb, as babies or children or young men and women or anyone who does not get to become an old person, in other words those that are denied the life?
End quote.

Resurrection was for humanity. Everyone now plays a part whenever one dies. Lest the one who lived to be 100 years claim that they had more life than the one who lived to 25 years old. We all contribute to human history.
Before “history” could not effectually build upon itself. It did not and could not bare fruit.
Since God has “made everything new”, history has even with its ups and down and pendulum effects been building upon itself and evolving because life was given to this life.
At no point in the past was there ever a sustainable and or evolving, women’s rights consciousness. Now there is and it’s not going to go away!
At no point in the past was there ever a sustainable and or evolving, consciousness of slavery abolition. Now there is an it is not going away.

The very basic point of just being “in this all together” is a growing and evolving consciousness. And it is not going away.

Biblically speaking, it was not the life of post-mortem that was raised but the life of this life that was raised:
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVIETH?
The law had no dominion over post-mortem continuity.

Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Eze 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride,

Sodom is returned to her former estate historically. That life here is what is in view.

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous GENERATION seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given TO IT, BUT the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh SHALL RISE IN JUDGMENT WITH THIS GENERATION, and shall condemn it {judge it based upon the historical application of their past example of repentance}: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south SHALL RISE UP IN THE JUDGMENT WITH THIS GENERATION, and shall condemn it {judge it based upon the historical application of their past example}: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, A GREATER THAT SOLOMON [is] here.

1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished {historically}.
1Cr 15:19 IF IN THIS LIFE ONLY we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. {Paul’s conclusions concerning the transition of the ages were applicable to “this life only”.}
1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept {historically}.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hbr 11:2 For by it the elders obtained A GOOD REPORT. {Historically in the history of eschatology IE the bible.}

Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a GOOD REPORT through faith, received NOT THE PROMISE:
Hbr 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, THAT THEY WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT. {ie They are make perfect historically thought the first-fruits resurrection in that generation.}

Hades was an historical waiting place, not a waiting place of postmortem continuity. Postmortem continuity was never the issue. God evolving His creation was always the issue and giving life to this life made everything new.

JMO of course.
Barry

]]> By: Sue http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5083 Sue Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:44:16 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5083 TRUTH : LIKE A DIAMOND IN THE SKY http://members.cox.net/8thday/diamond.html something may be true but not Truth TRUTH : LIKE A DIAMOND IN THE SKY

http://members.cox.net/8thday/diamond.html

something may be true but not Truth

]]> By: Sue http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5082 Sue Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:25:12 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5082 Titfortat, Good question. Someone more enlightened than I will need to answer. Earlier you said Christains stole the Jews religion and added their own flavor making a new religion (not quote, just how I understood your words) - Jeff Brenner who hosts 'Ancient Hebrew Reseach Center' does talk about how the Torah as Gods original Word to humans still needs to be honored as such. Have you ever gone to this website? I am new to it so still learning what it all means to me. Titfortat,

Good question. Someone more enlightened than I will need to answer.

Earlier you said Christains stole the Jews religion and added their own flavor making a new religion (not quote, just how I understood your words) – Jeff Brenner who hosts ‘Ancient Hebrew Reseach Center’ does talk about how the Torah as Gods original Word to humans still needs to be honored as such. Have you ever gone to this website? I am new to it so still learning what it all means to me.

]]> By: TitforTat http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-5081 TitforTat Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:35:33 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/2009/01/06/more-or-less/#comment-5081 These two quotes represent IMHO an interesting diversity of thought TitforTat. Perhaps there is a way of melding them together.(Barry) Diverse........that would be my brain lol. Anyways I digress. I actually dont believe the Bible as Christians have it is supposed to make sense. The reason being is the Torah is for Jews. They did not intend for these books to be used in forming another idea on God, they already had it. Now the people who didnt accept that version then decided to use it in their own rendition. That is where the similarities ended. Now, can you use scripture to help inform you on life, you sure can. Is it absolute truth, well I dont believe any of us can make a claim of Absolute, other than body death and taxes ;) Again I will ask this question. If we are eternal beings and we are ok in the grand scheme of things, then what is the purpose of pain and why do we feel that we have to avoid it? These two quotes represent IMHO an interesting diversity of thought TitforTat.
Perhaps there is a way of melding them together.(Barry)

Diverse……..that would be my brain lol. Anyways I digress. I actually dont believe the Bible as Christians have it is supposed to make sense. The reason being is the Torah is for Jews. They did not intend for these books to be used in forming another idea on God, they already had it. Now the people who didnt accept that version then decided to use it in their own rendition. That is where the similarities ended. Now, can you use scripture to help inform you on life, you sure can. Is it absolute truth, well I dont believe any of us can make a claim of Absolute, other than body death and taxes ;)
Again I will ask this question. If we are eternal beings and we are ok in the grand scheme of things, then what is the purpose of pain and why do we feel that we have to avoid it?

]]>