Does it Matter?
I am convinced that we are here on this earthly journey to learn something. The question is:
Does it really matter what we learn or is this life designed to teach us what we need to know regardless of what choices we make?
I speak purely out of opinion rather then fact but my answer to the above question is both yes and no.
32 The Pharisees heard the crowd whispering such things about him. Then the chief priests and the Pharisees sent temple guards to arrest him.
33 Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. 34 You will look for me, but you will not find me; and where I am, you cannot come."
35 The Jews said to one another, "Where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks? 36 What did he mean when he said, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me,’ and ‘Where I am, you cannot come’?"
WHAT DOES HE MEAN: YOU WILL LOOK FOR ME BUT WILL NOT FIND ME.
- THE “YOU” IN ALL OF THIS IS THE KEY…
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PERFORMANCE BASED PEOPLE.
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TRYING TO ACHIEVE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.
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KEEPERS OF THE LAW.
2 Cor 3:12-1812 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
NOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO TURN TO THE LORD?
John 1:16-1717 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
AS WE ACCEPT THIS FREEDOM APART FROM OUR OWN PERFORMANCE—WE THEN CAN SEE THE TRUTH OF THIS LIFE AND BEGIN TO REFLECT HIS GLORY.
Does God love us in our blindness? YES, YES, YES!
Does God want us to SEE? YES, YES, YES!
Will it happen in just ONE lifetime? ???????
Cliff,
You have written a great post. Learning and living are intertwined. The “does it matter” question is so interesting (and for some folks tricky) becuase it carries an assumption that life is just a way to bide time until our postmorten existence. “Does it matter if I believe X if everyone goes to heaven after they die?”
Uh, yes. It matters. What kind of life do you want to live? What kind of world do you want to create for yourself and others? Do you want to engender fear, anxiety, and suffering? Or are you more interested in fostering peace, kindness, and compassion?
I matters a lot on that level.
Thanks for the insights!
Kevin
Interesting thoughts Cliff. Are you suggesting that some people may reincarnate into another earthly life after death? I’d like to hear more of your thoughts on this.
I guess I wouldn’t mind having a second ‘go’ at this life, with a few provisos, e.g.I’d like to be able to recognise that veil and see it for what it is – (my carnal mind) much much sooner. I’d like not to be such a slow learner – it seems I’ve been ’shown’ the same things over and over again in life and it slowly dawned on me what REALITY truly is. It took me many years of life to learn that Heaven is not a geographical location, that it was WITHIN me, that the God up in the sky was a FAKE – the years I wasted pleading to him!! I’d like to KNOW that my Father dwells within me from that first breath I take – I’d like to know that the power of that breath to live life as Jesus did comes from the everlasting source IN me. I’d like to have lived from that source. But, I’d hate to go through all this over again without that, looking at the suffering in this world and feeling powerless to do anything about it. But, even as I write this I’m thinking but we HAVE been given a second opportunity, right now. We MUST be born again. Nicodemus was told that and I’m to put my name there because at last I’ve seen that all those stories in the Bible, when they are ‘lifted up in that new realm’ apply to me. I can CHOOSE to be born again in that ‘heavenly realm’ and have all that my Dad has provided for me right now. So, I guess the bottom line is – I don’t want another chance, I want to REALLY LIVE NOW!
Kevin, Thanks for the kind comment and I guess I do want people to understand that how we live does matter and it might matter more then we can possibly know after we leave these clay bodies. Will God love us less if we are clueless? I don’t believe so, and yet I think He (God) is always dropping us new clues to help us see our true reality.
Kirara, Yes, I am suggesting just that. Do I have proof? NO, but who really has proof of anything beyond this physical existance?
The reason I suggest reincarnation is because I am convinced we are here on earth to learn something specific and I am just as convinced that we don’t learn it in just one lifetime. What we need to learn can never be learned while in a “Fear Mindset”, thus the need for Jesus to show us the way into true BEING. Some never get JESUS and others think they get him when they really don’t, but the bottom line is that ultimately Jesus will be revealed in all of us, and the real question is “Can that really happen in just ONE go around?
Audrey, I do sense you are onto something and I agree that I would like to set the perimeters to the next go around but it seems obvious that none of us get that chance, but maybe what we do learn here on this trip has a bearing on how we start out in the next? The Buddist call this “Karma”. AND NO, I am not a Buddist, but that doesn’t mean I can’t learn from them. Anyway, I am glad you come here to share your unique vision of your journey.
Cliff – I reckon that Jesus had nothing more than what is available to us. The only difference that I see is that he did not ‘listen’ to a twisted thought (his carnal mind) and hold on to that thought as if it were TRUTH. He KNEW who he was. The opposite of what he did, is what I did. I believed and held on to the thought that I could be a god if only I had the power of knowing, not only good, but evil too! In that state I wasted nearly 40 years!! I sure don’t want to live that again, and chances are, I would. No, I’m for grabbing this opportunity of living this new life, re-born ‘from above’ – that higher realm, right now.
Audrey – I also tend to believe that once we have been awakened to certain parts of our identity we never lose that. We take that awakening with us to whatever is next. It’s not about starting over again but rather about moving foward to a destiny. If one believes this life matters in the next life then every moment we have here is of great value to us.
Christians focus on performance, thinking they will earn a better NEXT life.
I think it’s what we learn, not what we earn and although I would like to think I have learned all I need I sense that there is still much much more to come. I also think the learning we need most does not come from books or educations but rather from the experience of life itself.
Yes the experience of life itself will teach us by the true teacher if we look for his wisdom at the time. I have just been out summer pruning my roses. Each one, because they are different varieties I prune in a different way – some respond best to a gentle pruning of the spent blooms, others to a hard prune of a long branch that may be growing in the wrong direction. I do them both with love of the plant and its form. Having 5 kids taught me the same thing, now with my 15 grandies it’s the same thing – always having my antennae tuned for heart-wisdom in the moment. But, I’m not always prepared to do this Cliff – often I’m ‘off in my head’, and that is not the place to go if I want those lasting eternal ‘awakenings to certain parts of our identity that will never be lost’ that you speak of above.
Audrey – I love the rose analogy.
Cliff and Audrey,
1) Do you believe there is sin in the world?
2) Do you believe God created this world OR do you believe God is the creation?
3) Do you believe man is to become God or gods?
4) Is the source of authority God or your internal self?
Because he first loved us – Sue
Cliff,
“Christains focus on performance, thinking they will earn a better next life.”
That is a blanket statement and not true for all Christains. You do not have personal knowledge of all Christains thoughts or beliefs.
Audrey,
“Clifff, I reckon that Jesus had nothing more than what is available to us.”
Jesus said he was the Son of God. Jesus said he came to seek and save the lost. Jesus said thru him we know God. Jesus spoke with authority. Jesus died of his own accord to fulfill the Fathers WILL. I think Jesus had alot available to him that we do not have except thru him.
Because he first loved us – Sue
Christians focus on performance, thinking they will earn a better NEXT life.
(Cliff)
How about we just start earning a better “This” life. Its pretty obvious in my mind that what we do in this world very much determines how well we will have it. And remember, having no pain doesnt mean our life is good. We grow through our pain and challenges, so even they can be “good” for us. Now sitting on your ass and just hoping a next life will be better is an entirely different story. I believe the idea of Heaven is just a way for people to have hope for something else, instead of accepting and partaking in what we have.
Cliff,
I must admit your whole reincarnation thing trips me out – lol… but I’ll keep listening
I really liked your “blanket statement” (I assumed you meant ‘many’ or ‘most’ which I tend to agree)… which was followed by…
“I think it’s what we learn, not what we earn…”
Seems we gravitate toward performance. But also what we can learn. You clarified it can’t ultimately come from books/education but experience and I agree. You could say we LEARN from what we YEARN for and for much of my life I was yearning for the pedagogy of the Kingdom rather than yearning to experience the Person Who I believe is also yearning to experience us – to express His extravagant, affectionate LOVE to us and thru us! Awakening to the reality of Him, Father/Son/Spirit, Emmanuel/God With Us… means everything to me. Truly something that can never be earned! Thanks, Cliff!
TitforTat,
Well said.
I’m with you Cliff…all the way.
Sue- Are you SURE Jesus said he was the “son of God”? Might want to check out the translation very carefully.
Don R,
KJV
Matthew 27:43
John 9:37
John 10: 36
Sue, it’s not about having beliefs, but where we place our trust that counts. Beliefs are part of ‘head-type’ thinking, they are the principalities and powers’ that bind us into a rigid mind-set and don’t give ‘life’ to anybody, whereas the source within us gives life flowing like a river. Religion and social mores have put a veil over our minds so that the glory of what Father has provided for us cannot be seen. It is not until we turn our back on belief systems and trust those deep inner feelings that little glimpses of the realm Father dwells in, opens up for us. Jesus who lived from that same source said ‘I and the Father are ONE’ He did not live by a belief system, he just trusted Father moment by moment, and we have that same choice. His mission on earth was to show us how we too, could live as he did because as you have stated, all this is available ‘through him’. That veil was torn and we walk directly into the Father’s presence. So Sue, I hope I have answered your questions by not replying to each numbered belief.
Oh, I meant to add that as the dimension of REAL life opens up to us, all the God-talk will disappear, that realm is a lot more natural than we have so far seen. We will speak ‘life’ with every word as we begin to use this new ‘heart’ language, ‘the new song’.
Oh, I meant to add that as the dimension of REAL life opens up to us,(Audrey)
This life I live is Real, and though my body will disappear at one point it, still is as real as my spirit aspect of life. It is just change, like going from baby to old person, they both have value to who and what I am. It seems by the language that you use that this life is of less value than when we are in spirit. I think this is faulty thinking as the two are intertwined and make us who and what we are. I trust that the process of life is working just fine even with its pain and suffering. And from what I can see this is the way it was intended. Every generation has people at varying degrees of awareness, this is called process. Were all in process.
Sue asked:
1) Do you believe there is sin in the world?
No
2) Do you believe God created this world OR do you believe God is the creation?
Not sure – What God is to me is ever expanding almost daily.
3) Do you believe man is to become God or gods?
You can’t become something you already are.
4) Is the source of authority God or your internal self?
Not sure there is a difference.
Thanks Don R.
Titfortat……I agree that every aspect of my life, both physical and spiritual are of great value and we should treat ALL of our life with the respect it deserves. There is nothing wrong with earning things in this life but we don’t earn the Father’s love, that is given to us without any performance on our part just like the love we give to our own children.
Toby, I think you get what I was trying to say. Let me also say that I have never taught about reincarnation in past years even though I have a strong inclination toward believing it but I knew it would raise a lot of eye brows. I guess I am at a point in life where it’s more important for me to speak what’s in my heart regardless of what others might think.
Sue, You are right in saying that not all christians are into earning their way to a better next life, but my experience has been that a strong majority do and that’s what I meant to say.
Audrey said: Oh, I meant to add that as the dimension of REAL life opens up to us, all the God-talk will disappear, that realm is a lot more natural than we have so far seen. We will speak ‘life’ with every word as we begin to use this new ‘heart’ language, ‘the new song’
I really agree and the past 2000 years of arguing, dividing, hating, killing, and so on, all in the name of Jesus proves that we need to seek God on a different wave link then we have in the past. I believe you are onto something and when you speak my heart hears the “new song”.
Audrey,
No, you did not answer any of my questions, as usual. You say it’s not about beliefs then talk about what you believe.
My trust is in God who created me. I am not trying to become a god like you seem to want to be. (you said you wanted to be a god in your 3:14pm post) I am human. I am not a god. I cannot become a god. What I can do is live my life with dignity and love to everyone the best of my human ability. Jesus Christ is my savior and my teacher. I put my ultimate trust in God/Jesus. For me, to put my trust in myself is trusting in a false Christ.
By trust, I mean I know God loves mankind and will deal with us in love for whatever comes after this carnal life. I know I have very limited control over this carnal life. My life force and source (that which causes my heart to beat and my lungs to breathe and my mind to think etc.) will return to God. Do I understand ALL THINGS?
NO.
Because HE first loved us -
Sue
Cliff I hear you my brother, what you have been sharing lately has really been an encouragment, Audrey like you said, its time for the “belief wars” to take a dirt nap and move on into that which is beyond thought patterns and belief systems, a language of the heart that is not bound to such. Life in God is Now.
Sue, you misread me – I was using the Genesis analogy, putting myself there as it applies to me. We make gods constantly by living from that head-knowledge. As soon as we judge something to be good or bad, we act as gods. If you really want answers to those beliefs I would say Cliff has answered with wisdom, and I agree with his answers. Please do not get ruffled feathers on my account.
Marco – love the ‘dirt nap’, and yes to moving on. The time IS now.
Cliff, I too am greatly encouraged and excited by what you are writing – you sure are on the right track, as Marco says, let’s all move on. The bridegroom awaits, he is even at the door!
Audrey,
So, is it a new rule to be able to post or try to understand another persons post that all need to accept what you and Cliff and others agree on as truth? I thought this was an open forum, where ALL were accepted reguardless of their convictions, beliefs, evolvement, enlightenment or lack thereof, or whatever one wants to call it. Whatever anyone speaks as their truth is their belief. Ask questions to understand (not necessarily believe or agree with) where one is coming from and stating ones own thoughts is what I thought BG represented. Huge dissapointment. This is no longer an open or loving forum. I have no feathers so you cannot ruffle something I don’t have. Wannabe gods are sure sounding self-righteous.
Because HE first loved us -
Sue
Sue, I hope you don’t leave. I enjoy reading everyone’s contributions including yours and it’d be a shame to lose yours.
Sue, I love what you contribute on this site. I love your questions and I also love hearing all the different answers. If we all came here with the same set of answers then we might as well join a church and sit under the same preacher each week.
You said: “I thought this was an open forum, where ALL were accepted reguardless of their convictions, beliefs, evolvement, enlightenment or lack thereof, or whatever one wants to call it.”
I can only speak for myself but I do welcome and accept all the different people who share their lives on this site. I sense that you think Audrey is attacking you and that’s not what I think at all. I really believe you have misread her. I can remember not long back when Jack and I were going at it and Audrey said some things that I really didn’t understand and I thought she was coming from a place of spiritual arrogance and then I went back and re-read her comments over and over and I started getting what she was saying. That doesn’t mean that her & I will agree on everything but I certainly don’t think she is trying to avoid you or put down your belief system. She is just coming from a totally different vantage point in how she sees things and it’s a vantage point I really want to explore. I also love the way you question us all. Questions are wonderful, but not if you get dissappointed with the answers. I want to learn to cherish all that come here and I want to make that eternal connection that is not and can not be based on our individual beliefs.
You are an intregal part of this site’s success and losing you would be a great dissappointment.
CLiff always enjoy reading your articles they open the heart and mind.Sue I truly thank God for bring you here to Bold Grace this is a place where people are free to express love to one another with out fear.
Love in Christ Dan
Hi all
I overheard someone say a few years ago that the belief in reincarnation/karma (very blanket statement here sorry) is one of the underlying causes of the caste system in countries like India. People see poor people begging, diseased, ill etc, and think they are getting what they deserved due to a past life. This is one of the reasons I don’t want to embrace the idea of reincarnation. Plus I find it hard to believe anyway.
God bless
Julia
I love this place. It bumps against my religious conditioning and false securities and that’s a good thing! I’d rather have a handful of friends like the ones I see here, with varying and even contrary ‘beliefs’ than a building full of hand-shaking, head-nodding Churchians who can’t or won’t see beyond religious obligation…. (speaking of systems…). I must admit that the comfort & security of that latter group is still appealing to me on some levels but I know ‘deep calls’ and I’m being led beyond these familiar waters. Thank you Cliff and BG friends, for having me around now…and wherever we may be next
…as long as we are IN Him nothing else matters – we are all loved much!
(And “IN Him” we are! Whether we realize it or not!)
Thanks Toby. I appreciate what you share and your willingness to embrace all our differences.
Julia, I don’t embrace all the teachings of reincarnation and in fact I have no desire to push the issue because it’s obvious our Creator didn’t think we needed to know that much about what is next. It just makes sense to me that all that we learn on this journey has purpose for something and that something may be another go around or it might be a completely different type of journey in a whole new setting that is beyond our wildest dreams. As John Lennon says all I can do is “IMAGINE”.
Think about what Paul said:
Eph 3:16-20
16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,
18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,
19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge — that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,
We all have a power within us that surpassess KNOWLEDGE and this power enables us to do more then Paul could ever IMAGINE, so just because we don’t read about it in Paul’s writtings doesn’t mean it can’t be so.
Good points, Cliff.
Sue- Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I think the problem is the KJV. In the opinion of most Biblical scholars (of which I am not), the KJV is not an accurate translation of the Greek. The version chosen by the KJV compilers was a very late Greek translation. There are better Greek translations which reveal some very interesting differences including most of the verses you quoted.