“Positive” Change
"Behavior scientist have known for decades that the most effective way to alter the behavior of any living creature is through positive reinforcement."
Those words come from a booklet I recently purchased, "The Whole Dog Journal". It is a publication that offers guidelines for raising happy well adjusted dogs.
Do you suppose that what was written here also applies to the creature of man?
What if we affected the behavior of other people through offering them nothing but positive reinforcement? What if we only stressed that God loves them unconditionally…..always. What if we told them only "good-news" and never tried to change them through threats of negative punishment from an angry God?
The Whole Dog Journal also states that "these techniques work – and better yet they work without ever making the animal afraid or defensive".
Hmmm. Who are the most well adjusted people. Those who know they are loved and accepted or those who are afraid and defensive?
I have always believed that God meant for us to change the world.
What wonderful wisdom. Thanks Steve.
Agreed my friend….
When was the last time you saw a dog worry about anything? The only time dogs get anxious is when their owners are full of anxiety.
Wouldn’t work.
Humans are sinful and if you offer them an inch they will take two.
God had to give the law to try and rein in the selfish creature called ‘man’.
Try it with the speed limit for a test case. It would never work.
It is a pity you have such a negative outlook on humanity Steve M, but that is what religion does best to people. If you really understood the purpose of the law, according to Paul, you would realize it was given to stir up sin – to create sin, not to solve it or rein it in. The only thing that can rein in the selfishness in humanity, imo, is that abiding in Life. In that losing of self to discover the real, which really isn’t a self but a Source, which is the true you, but not limited to. That source could be called God, or Life, or being.
Positive reinforcement is a powerful tool indeed, but it has to be sincere thats for sure, and in the context of the situation, the key is to be positive without being passive, as if there is no room for improvement. I think that sincerity comes from the heart expression that is God living and changing the world through the souls willing.
Don, yes dogs seem to easily sense our state of mind…..and react to it.
Steve M, remember that we are created in God’s image. Surely you don’t think God is selfish?
It is a shame that Jesus was the son who knew that He was the image of His Father and couldn’t be tempted to think otherwise.
By the way, I am not advocating that we all of a sudden do away with all laws. What I am proposing is that “believers”, in the midst of a law dominated world, begin to offer only the positive message of God’s love, acceptance and redemption rather than the impending judgment message many of the “believers” have been preaching which constantly creates a mentality of the fear of God making people defensive when God is mentioned.
Maybe the good-news would gradually begin to change the world by changing the mentality of mankind into thinking of themselves as noble God-like beings, full of grace. Who knows, maybe then they would no longer even need speed limits. Could it be that the need for so many “laws” is a result of the ages of the negative fearful thinking of man? I propose that the age for that sort of thinking ended with the cross.
As the booklet stated, all creatures are more likely to change through positive reinforcement. There is nothing more positive than the message of the loving gracious redemptive nature of our loving Father.
The only thing that can rein in the selfishness in humanity, imo, is that abiding in Life. In that losing of self to discover the real, which really isn’t a self but a Source, which is the true you, but not limited to. That source could be called God, or Life, or being. (Marco)
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Right-on Marco!
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Positive reinforcement is a handy tool when dealing with animals because they respond well to positive stimuli having an instinct and not a spirit. However we are speaking about mankind, and positive reinforcement is not sufficient. It’s just not enough. The only way is through love, REAL love, the agape kind. This is only found within the real you, in that life-flow within your spirit that Marco speaks of above, call it what you will. This is where the AUTHORITY or the ‘key’ to change is found.
I have always believed that God meant for us to change the world.(steve)
Im not so sure the world needs change per se. I think we just need more awareness of the Love thats in it. The system is the way it is, perception is everything.
Hello steve how are you keeping my old friend.?
I’m still sharing my established heart of grace.
Send me an email when you can.I losted yours.
Tell bev and the family we all send our love to you all.
Kennth, just sent you an email.
TitforTat, I would love to see the world change and see and end to wars, hatred, fear, envy, jealousy, greed. There are so many resources in this world that if mankind really became one we could end poverty.
Yes there is a lot of love in the world. May it grow above all of these other things that still bring so much hurt.
Steve
Though I share the idea of eliminating suffering and such, I wonder how we would know the difference if it wasnt there?
Carry on my brother !
Jesus said, “Follow Me and I will make you Fishers of Men.” Those who heard Him were
commercial fisherman. Their work involved taking fish from the water, where they were of little
worth, and placing them in the market place where their worth was greatly increased. Thus, these
fisherman understood that Jesus had said, “Follow Me and I will show you how to reveal the
worth of all mankind.”
Wes
Marco,
Read the first three chapters of Romans.
That is about as good a description of the true heart and condition of mankind as I ever seen.
Steve M- I think you are making a large assumption about how all feel about the NT. I assume, only assume, you feel it to be scripture, “word of God, instead of an epistle to the Roman “believers” for their time and their circumstance. Let us hear from Marco on your comment.
SteveM, as you draw attention to Romans ch 1-3 may I suggest that you read on especially chapter 5.
IMO verses 15 through the end of the chapter are exactly the kind of positive reinforcement that the world needs to hear.
It is about as good a description of the good-news as I have ever seen.
Peace.
Steve W.,
The Good News is a reality because of what Christ has done for us. But it doesn’t erase the reality of what man is, or what man can achieve towards goodness or godliness.
Chapter 5 wouldn’t be necessary if it weren’t for chapters 1 -3.
Thanks Steve W. !
Don R.
St. Paul was speaking, not just about the Romans, his description was of mankind as a whole.
Paul was an educated man and used language carefully. he uses words like, “all”, “no one”
Chapter 2 starts out, “Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are…”
He’s talking about all of us.
“He’s talking about all of us”. (Steve M)
All the more reason why ALL of us need the positive input of the good-news.
Steve M
Me thinks if you stopped reading about how bad we are you just might find some more good than bad in your fellow human. Its funny but even as I listen to all that shit you spew out about us, I get this feeling you are actually a really nice guy. Go figure lol
steve wrote:
“Marco,
Read the first three chapters of Romans.
That is about as good a description of the true heart and condition of mankind as I ever seen.”
Steve M if all we ever read was the first 3 chapters of any book and came to some kind of conclusion about the whole, we are fools indeed.
Steve Martin: The only thing that God created and then then used the words “VERY GOOD” was when he talked about the creation of man. Now you tell me how Romans 1:20 fits into that “VERY GOODNESS”?
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
We know from Genisis that His Divine nature was most clearly created within the human race of MANKIND.
Gen 1:26-31
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground — everything that has the breath of life in it — I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was VERY GOOD.
IMO what we humans are without excuse concerning is our divine nature which is clearly seen when we look past our self righteous selves (need to follow law) and begin to follow the beautiful spirit within that has always been there. Luke 17:20-21
20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation,
21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.”
Steve M, You will never find the Kingdom of God in a church sevice, baptism, Lord’s supper, or any other ritual. You will find the Kingdom of God within yourself. He has never been far from you.
Acts 17:27-28
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
The first three chapters of Romans is about man’s failure to find God looking outside themselves. Just because man failed to see the God within does not mean He was not there all along. Even when Adam and Eve left the Garden God was with them and He has been with all of us every step of the way. Knowing this is where true peace is found.
NOTHING REAL CAN BE THREATENED, NOTHING UNREAL EXISTS, AND THEREIN LIES THE PEACE OF GOD.
Ok guys and gals…I don’t stop reading at Romans 3.
I know we have a lot of “good” in us.
But not for righteousness sake. “There is none good but God”, Jesus said.
He meant for righteousness sake.
When we come to the realization that we are not what God meant us to be, then hopefully we’ll have some sorrow for sin and repent, and then the gospel can do it’s good work of love and forgiveness in us and through us.
Thanks!!
Steve M, Please don’t think we’re picking on because we love your enthusiasm and your sharing. Many of us have been exactly where you are and I can guarantee that in ten years you will look back and understand where we are coming from. You have a wonderful outlook on grace and it will continue to evolve and establish your heart in ways beyond your wildest imaginations. Thanks again for all your sharing. It is together that we all move foward by challenging and encouraging each other is this divine image in which we are all made.
Cliff,
Thanks for your kind and epathatic words.
I don’t think you guys are picking on me, that’s not it. (I have a very thick skin by the way)
I wish folks wouldn’t go beyond the points that I make into other areas where I did not go.
For example; just because St. Paul is trying to lay the groundwork of man’s inability to be righteous because of man’s deep seated sinfulness, and I point that out, doesn’t mean that I don’t understand or I am ignoring the wonderful graciousness of God, and His forgiveness of that sin. They are two distinct realities, but are related to a common story.
Paul put that in Romans for a reason. The reason being that somehow or another, repentance is a part of God’s delivery system for the love which He freely gives.
The parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector makes that point more clear than I can.
Thanks you, Cliff!
Steve M. my point was in reference to the NT. It is obvious to me that you and I and possibly others are not on the same page about the NT. I am aware that Paul did speak of others outside the realm of the recipients of that epistle. The heart of each of his epistles were to the believers in that locale. I do not believe these epistles are to be treated as scripture and I believe Paul would be shocked to find that we have done that very thing almost to the exclusion of the Jesus story.
Don R.
I could not disagree more.
I believe that Paul was chosen by Christ (after all the others) because the others didn’t quite get it.
Paul’s mission, primarily getting the Word of Christ to the gentiles, was widespread and certainly when he speaks, he is speaking to us.
Paul’s laying out of the problem is quite germane to the Jesus story. Without a recognition of the sickness, there is no need for a physician. Jesus is the Great Physician but he told us Hiomself that He has come for the sick and that the healthy have no need of Him.
This is why Paul is so adamant about describing the falleness of man and making sure that no one is left out.
Thank you, Don!
The crux of the matter is the difference between the old and the new covenants. Under the old covenant nobody could enter into the Holy of Holies at any time they chose, not even the high priest. Why? Because of the awareness of sin. That still applies today even though the new covenant made the way completely open. An awareness of sin separates us from the source of love and grace. This is because of the carnal mind that keeps us from ’seeing’ the grace that is gifted to us. We remain blind. While we remain thinking from this source we cannot even see the Kingdom and our King. However we were promised that the spirit of Elijah would come. Remember, he was the one that showed the difference between the real and the imposter, and that is what is happening today. People in general are becoming aware of the counterfeit and turning away from it to find the real within them. Letting go of that old covenent and opening up to the new. This can only happen through metanoia or re-thinking.
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Steve, that word ‘repent’ was a mistranslation. Mere sorrow for wrongdoing won’t get you into the kingdom, that realm where grace abounds. But, metanoia will. It is thinking from a higher source, that spirit within you, will open up this realm to you. Then you will ’see’ and ‘hear’ and gain a truthful understanding. To get to that place it’s just a simple matter of putting aside all your learned knowledge and being prepared to open your heart like a little child, no pre-conceived ideas, just start again and learn from your heart. You are obviously being wooed by the spirit or you would not have an appreciation of the grace you have tasted. Just look back and try to remember where this feeling came from at that time of revelation. I know it cannot have come through your mind, though that should have been ‘enlightened’ as a result. The trouble is, in attributing this enlightenment to the wrong source it takes us out of the spirit realm and into the world – that taught way of thinking. (Straight back under the old covenant – awareness of sin-punishment-death) The spirit says I will not have my glory being given to another. So, by attributing this awareness of grace to the source from whence it comes, we remain in the realm of the spirit, and that river of life will well up within you, full of love and truth. Then you will find the trappings and symbols of religion will just fall off. No need to have ‘reminders’ because you will have the REAL. And it’s all there inside you, waiting to open up for you.
Audrey,
Thanks for your thoughtful explanation.
One thing still comes to mind. That tax collector and Jesus’ thoughts of him.
It seemed to me that there wasn’t really metanoia but a real sorrow and grief for sin. And Jesus said that “he went away justified.”
Got to run!
Thanks Audrey!
– Steve
Steve, the point of the story of Zaccheus is that he ‘received Him gladly’. If you have been reminded of this story, remembering that the bible is not a history book, but an up-to-the-minute account of your personal spiritual walk, where everything that is ‘brought to mind’ is the spirit endeavouring to teach something from this very story.
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Zaccheus climbed a sycamore tree (trees are patterns of thought) in order to see Jesus because he was small of stature ( of not much importance in his own eyes) The names of people also help us in discovering what the spirit is saying. In this case Zaccheus means transparent or clean morally and physically. It was because of his pure open heart that Jesus said he was coming to stay with him. A pure heart does not hang on to the things of this world, so the ‘giving away’ was not a sorrowful experience rather the reverse – it was because it no longer had meaning for him. It ‘just dropped off’ – he had found something far better. As a result Jesus said to him that salvation (Jesus) had come to his house (his heart) BECAUSE he was a son of Abraham, (a spiritual son, a son of faith – the new covenant). Jesus then went on to teach about the Kingdom, but in parables or pictures because the time for seeing the truth in these pictures had not yet come for the masses. On the other hand he had spoken to Zaccheus very clearly. This story is quite obviously for you Steve. Put your name in it and ‘hear‘ it from your heart where the acknowledgment will be felt in your spirit.
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Audrey,
Wrong tax collector.
I was refering to the Pharisee and the publican in the Temple.
I do love the Zaccheus story as well!
Thanks very much, Audrey!
– Steve
Steve – that was a parable Jesus told to some self-righteous guys full of their own importance, to show them that all their ‘good works’ (under the old covenant) did not make them righteous, but it is a humble heart that is the first step to being exalted (lifted or raised up – able to ’see’ the Kingdom)
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