Comments on: THE BLUE BIRD by Doug Hazelbaker http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/ It's more wonderful than you can imagine! Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:53:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Lisa Perry http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8491 Lisa Perry Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:27:52 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8491 Doug, Awesome analogy with the apple. I also like the story of the blind men and the elephant where one describes the elephant by the trunk, one by the legs, and one by the body. They get 3 very different descriptions because of their own experience but when they are open to all 3 views, they get the best picture of the actual elephant. Doug,

Awesome analogy with the apple. I also like the story of the blind men and the elephant where one describes the elephant by the trunk, one by the legs, and one by the body. They get 3 very different descriptions because of their own experience but when they are open to all 3 views, they get the best picture of the actual elephant.

]]> By: Connie Lard http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8469 Connie Lard Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:46:00 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8469 Mindy, I understand your concern with what some churches teach. I am just asking that you not lump all churches together and assume that they are all like what you found in your church experience. The church I now attend doesn't teach any of the things that you guys portray. I am simply asking you to be more open-minded and less judgmental of churches in general. Your comments about self-righteousness and fear and walking around like robots may be true for what you found. But it is not true for all churches and certainly not true for all individuals in church settings. It is not fair for you to make such a sweeping generalization based on your limited experience. While I can understand your decision not to have church be a part of your life based on your negative experiences, I would appreciate it if you would not put out the propaganda that all churches are like that. Because they aren't. When you make remarks like that it does nothing but separate you from your brothers and sisters who are simply at a different place on the journey and who choose to be a part of a formal church setting. You say that you believe in unconditional love and that you want to see every person you meet with the eyes of God. You speak of truth and freedom, but as long as you have these kinds of resentments against people you don't even know, you aren't really free at all. This is just my observation based on the words I've read from you here. I realize that you probably aren't going to pay much attention to anything I have to say because your mind is already made up, but I just thought I'd give it one more try! :) Mindy,

I understand your concern with what some churches teach. I am just asking that you not lump all churches together and assume that they are all like what you found in your church experience. The church I now attend doesn’t teach any of the things that you guys portray. I am simply asking you to be more open-minded and less judgmental of churches in general. Your comments about self-righteousness and fear and walking around like robots may be true for what you found. But it is not true for all churches and certainly not true for all individuals in church settings. It is not fair for you to make such a sweeping generalization based on your limited experience. While I can understand your decision not to have church be a part of your life based on your negative experiences, I would appreciate it if you would not put out the propaganda that all churches are like that. Because they aren’t.

When you make remarks like that it does nothing but separate you from your brothers and sisters who are simply at a different place on the journey and who choose to be a part of a formal church setting. You say that you believe in unconditional love and that you want to see every person you meet with the eyes of God. You speak of truth and freedom, but as long as you have these kinds of resentments against people you don’t even know, you aren’t really free at all. This is just my observation based on the words I’ve read from you here. I realize that you probably aren’t going to pay much attention to anything I have to say because your mind is already made up, but I just thought I’d give it one more try! :)

]]> By: Doug http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8465 Doug Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:37:16 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8465 I love knowing that i am part of a chuch that is dedacated to the sprit of Gods love. i believe there will be a time that it will be not just the greatest but the larges chuch on earth. A church with no windows or doors. A church that all are welcome at anytime day or night, and you can leave without fear or guilt. I love knowing that i am part of a chuch that is dedacated to the sprit of Gods love. i believe there will be a time that it will be not just the greatest but the larges chuch on earth. A church with no windows or doors. A church that all are welcome at anytime day or night, and you can leave without fear or guilt.

]]> By: Doug http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8464 Doug Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:16:48 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8464 Much of the discussion seems to be around the teaching in a church of any kind verses the teaching of the spirit of love. Our perceptions of what is good are always subject to the the experiences that we have had with it. If i give a child a, that has never seen an apple, a green unripe granny apple and ask it to define it, the child will say that it is a sour fruit, but if i give a child a ripe red Delicious apple, it will say its a sweet fruit and ask for more, but if that same child continues to eat that fruit and bites into a worm, it will no longer partake of it. I have known many very dedicated people that spent there entire lives serving God in in a lot of different churches and have past on peacefully believing they would be in the arms of Jesus, those people never tasted the worm in there apple. When dose one think that there are part of a church? Is it only on Sunday morning, when you walk through the doors of a beautiful decorated brick and mortar building or is it each time you open the page to Bold grace? How many people must gather , in the name of Jesus Christ, to be a Church? Much of the discussion seems to be around the teaching in a church of any kind verses the teaching of the spirit of love. Our perceptions of what is good are always subject to the the experiences that we have had with it.
If i give a child a, that has never seen an apple, a green unripe granny apple and ask it to define it, the child will say that it is a sour fruit, but if i give a child a ripe red Delicious apple, it will say its a sweet fruit and ask for more, but if that same child continues to eat that fruit and bites into a worm, it will no longer partake of it.
I have known many very dedicated people that spent there entire lives serving God in in a lot of different churches and have past on peacefully believing they would be in the arms of Jesus, those people never tasted the worm in there apple.
When dose one think that there are part of a church? Is it only on Sunday morning, when you walk through the doors of a beautiful decorated brick and mortar building or is it each time you open the page to Bold grace? How many people must gather , in the name of Jesus Christ, to be a Church?

]]> By: Mindy http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8450 Mindy Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:04:44 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8450 Connie, I do not judge those people inside those buildings, but I do judge what those Churches are teaching and for me it is wrong. To me it just isn't real. It does not touch my spirit in anyway shape or form. Their message teach the "pue sitter" to be a hypocrite because you simply cannot love God if you aren't loving your brother. Religion seperates (I'd say that is pretty obious), it teaches self-righteousness, it teaches fear and I simply cannot be a part of that teaching. Many wonderful people go to Church and do not have a clue what they are being taught. They are like robots walking around programmed by someone else to live according to the law. I have to be true and real to myself. I cannot be a part of something that LIMITS me to who I am and Church does that. I will do me best in life to look at every person I meet and see them with the eyes of God. If your comfort is going to Church and leaving feeling like you learned more about who you are then have at it. It doesn't affect my life any. I just truly cannot be a part of an organaztion that teaches fear. A place that teaches my child she has to do something to get right with God or that she can never be perfect or that she is limited. I will encourage her to acknowledge what is and always will be within her and that is the spirit of Love. Connie,
I do not judge those people inside those buildings, but I do judge what those Churches are teaching and for me it is wrong. To me it just isn’t real. It does not touch my spirit in anyway shape or form. Their message teach the “pue sitter” to be a hypocrite because you simply cannot love God if you aren’t loving your brother. Religion seperates (I’d say that is pretty obious), it teaches self-righteousness, it teaches fear and I simply cannot be a part of that teaching. Many wonderful people go to Church and do not have a clue what they are being taught. They are like robots walking around programmed by someone else to live according to the law. I have to be true and real to myself. I cannot be a part of something that LIMITS me to who I am and Church does that. I will do me best in life to look at every person I meet and see them with the eyes of God.
If your comfort is going to Church and leaving feeling like you learned more about who you are then have at it. It doesn’t affect my life any. I just truly cannot be a part of an organaztion that teaches fear. A place that teaches my child she has to do something to get right with God or that she can never be perfect or that she is limited. I will encourage her to acknowledge what is and always will be within her and that is the spirit of Love.

]]> By: Audrey NZ http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8443 Audrey NZ Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:40:52 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8443 The other thing that JC declared was that the Kingdom of God has come (present continuous tense) and IS WITHIN US. As we touch this realm we FEEL the love that is the Father, drawing us, wooing us. Let's not just stop here, wonderful as this love is but let's follow him further so that we may reveal him to the needy world, by making visible IN US that ONE within us. The other thing that JC declared was that the Kingdom of God has come (present continuous tense) and IS WITHIN US. As we touch this realm we FEEL the love that is the Father, drawing us, wooing us. Let’s not just stop here, wonderful as this love is but let’s follow him further so that we may reveal him to the needy world, by making visible IN US that ONE within us.

]]> By: Audrey NZ http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8442 Audrey NZ Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:25:04 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8442 I don't read any of what Nancy is saying as judgmental, but I do think she is making a very good point that will help us understand what is happening today. We need to look into this further. We all have the capability to act as little Hitlers. Our righteousness, no matter how hard we try to 'do good' ends up being just as filthy as the worst crime because we fall short of the mark, and it doesn't matter by how much or how little, nothing of our righteousness will get us into the Kingdom. So we stand in the same dock as Hitler, Mugabe and many many others. . We carry the enemy around with us - it's our depraved minds that we've inherited. We are a dual people, human + spirit, but we live mostly from our humanity and cannot understand the spiritual world let alone 'see' it. However as Nancy has said, the love of God is poured out on ALL mankind, whether we feel it or not, no-one is left out, so much so that he opened a way for us to enter back into his love and his friendship at the very moment we got separated from him. JC's mission was to show us how to restore that fellowship with our REAL Father, and to reveal to us where he lives, his Kingdom within us. As JC said, If any man will come after me let him deny himself (his ego) and take up his cross ( be prepared to put that self-righteous one to death) and follow me to Calvary (see our humanity - that part of us that constantly misses the mark nailed with Jesus and DEAD). Whosoever saves his natural life that animates his body, shall lose it. But whosoever shall voluntarily lay down his natural life FOR MY SAKE, shall discover his true life that is ordained and designed to fulfil the purpose of our REAL Father on this earth. I don’t read any of what Nancy is saying as judgmental, but I do think she is making a very good point that will help us understand what is happening today. We need to look into this further. We all have the capability to act as little Hitlers. Our righteousness, no matter how hard we try to ‘do good’ ends up being just as filthy as the worst crime because we fall short of the mark, and it doesn’t matter by how much or how little, nothing of our righteousness will get us into the Kingdom. So we stand in the same dock as Hitler, Mugabe and many many others.
.
We carry the enemy around with us – it’s our depraved minds that we’ve inherited. We are a dual people, human + spirit, but we live mostly from our humanity and cannot understand the spiritual world let alone ’see’ it. However as Nancy has said, the love of God is poured out on ALL mankind, whether we feel it or not, no-one is left out, so much so that he opened a way for us to enter back into his love and his friendship at the very moment we got separated from him. JC’s mission was to show us how to restore that fellowship with our REAL Father, and to reveal to us where he lives, his Kingdom within us. As JC said,
If any man will come after me let him deny himself (his ego) and take up his cross ( be prepared to put that self-righteous one to death) and follow me to Calvary (see our humanity – that part of us that constantly misses the mark nailed with Jesus and DEAD). Whosoever saves his natural life that animates his body, shall lose it. But whosoever shall voluntarily lay down his natural life FOR MY SAKE, shall discover his true life that is ordained and designed to fulfil the purpose of our REAL Father on this earth.

]]> By: Connie Lard http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8430 Connie Lard Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:33:25 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8430 The term "religion" covers a lot of territory. Some in organized religion are as you have characterized it - demanding and judgmental, and not accepting of others' point of view. There are many others who aren't like that at all. I think it is a judgmental statement to characterize all who are in "religion" as fitting the caricature that you have painted - "not accepting brothers on the other street corner." Interesting to me that you can extend grace to Hitler, but speak in such a hostile way about people who go to church, most of whom you don't even know. I agree with Doug that true peace is found when we realize that God loves us each unconditionally. Then we realize that our main job here is to extend that love to everyone we touch, and not to judge them or their motives. The term “religion” covers a lot of territory. Some in organized religion are as you have characterized it – demanding and judgmental, and not accepting of others’ point of view. There are many others who aren’t like that at all. I think it is a judgmental statement to characterize all who are in “religion” as fitting the caricature that you have painted – “not accepting brothers on the other street corner.” Interesting to me that you can extend grace to Hitler, but speak in such a hostile way about people who go to church, most of whom you don’t even know.

I agree with Doug that true peace is found when we realize that God loves us each unconditionally. Then we realize that our main job here is to extend that love to everyone we touch, and not to judge them or their motives.

]]> By: Nancy http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8425 Nancy Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:53:02 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8425 Religion's message is that you must get right with God to know God or be excepted by God. God's message is - how can you say you love God whom you have not seen but not love your brother whom you have seen? Who is my brother? Wow, that means even Hitler or others like Hitler are my brother and created in God's image, that image being LOVE. Of course there are consequences to our actions, but nothing separates us from the love of God. Man separates from that love by his judgements, those he puts on others and himself. Do you think you have the insight to know Hitler or others like him. The question here is, what is the love of God? UNCONDITIONAL? For me the answer is that God is the all knowing God. He is the only one who will ever know my complete story and therefore is the only one who can ever make a judgement on my story. The love of God will never be based on man and his judgements because they are always wrong. I want to love like God and I will try until I take my last breath. Cliff said while in his dieing that he didn't see the person that had come to see him before he died but he saw LOVE. Lots of people came to see him! Man makes judgements on things he sees with his human eyes but look at the spirit of man and try to ask yourself what does God see. Cliff saw what God saw Religion is almost on every street corner not excepting his brothers on the other street corner. Really sad don't you think! They each say that they have found the truth and that truth being the way to God. We must find our way to each other and that can only happens when we see that we are one, yes I am one with Hitler because I am one with God. I believe I have found the truth and he said that truth (love) shall set you free. I am free! Religion’s message is that you must get right with God to know God or be excepted by God. God’s message is – how can you say you love God whom you have not seen but not love your brother whom you have seen? Who is my brother? Wow, that means even Hitler or others like Hitler are my brother and created in God’s image, that image being LOVE. Of course there are consequences to our actions, but nothing separates us from the love of God. Man separates from that love by his judgements, those he puts on others and himself. Do you think you have the insight to know Hitler or others like him. The question here is, what is the love of God? UNCONDITIONAL? For me the answer is that God is the all knowing God. He is the only one who will ever know my complete story and therefore is the only one who can ever make a judgement on my story. The love of God will never be based on man and his judgements because they are always wrong. I want to love like God and I will try until I take my last breath. Cliff said while in his dieing that he didn’t see the person that had come to see him before he died but he saw LOVE. Lots of people came to see him! Man makes judgements on things he sees with his human eyes but look at the spirit of man and try to ask yourself what does God see. Cliff saw what God saw

Religion is almost on every street corner not excepting his brothers on the other street corner. Really sad don’t you think! They each say that they have found the truth and that truth being the way to God. We must find our way to each other and that can only happens when we see that we are one, yes I am one with Hitler because I am one with God. I believe I have found the truth and he said that truth (love) shall set you free. I am free!

]]> By: Doug http://boldgrace.com/2009/07/08/the-blue-bird-by-doug-hazelbaker/comment-page-1/#comment-8424 Doug Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:39:43 +0000 http://boldgrace.com/?p=832#comment-8424 Connie, my dear friend, you have not offended anyone. It is through discussions such as these that each of us grow. "We can agree that unconditional love is the answer. But, what exactly is love? Some would say it’s accepting any kind of behavior as okay. Others might say, no, it’s important to confront someone who is engaging in behavior that is harmful to themselves or others. It might seem unloving to just accept any kind of behavior without confronting issues that are sure to cause harm." I dont think it is unconditional love for others that allows us to achieve peace, because we will fall beneath that standard at times. I do think it is knowing,without question, that God has unconditional love for us, and with that belief there will be peace. Love always, Doug Connie, my dear friend, you have not offended anyone. It is through discussions such as these that each of us grow.

“We can agree that unconditional love is the answer. But, what exactly is love? Some would say it’s accepting any kind of behavior as okay. Others might say, no, it’s important to confront someone who is engaging in behavior that is harmful to themselves or others. It might seem unloving to just accept any kind of behavior without confronting issues that are sure to cause harm.”

I dont think it is unconditional love for others that allows us to achieve peace, because we will fall beneath that standard at times. I do think it is knowing,without question, that God has unconditional love for us, and with that belief there will be peace.

Love always, Doug

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