Where Do We Get Our Wisdom? by Cliff Hazelbaker
All of us come here at BG to share in the hopes of moving closer to understanding who we are and what this life is all about. I for one am very grateful for each and every person who comments and shares a part of who they are and their personal journey toward wisdom. Wisdom is different from knowledge. I have known many very bright and intelligent people who lacked in wisdom and I have also known some very humble people with little education that seem to be overflowing with wisdom. I am a person who has spent a great deal of my adult life studying the bible and a host of other books with the goal of finding true wisdom and yet what little wisdom that I believe I have came not from those studies but rather from a much higher source. As I look at the life of Jesus I am struck by the fact that He also received His wisdom from a source that was beyond his actual ability to learn anything from an educational standpoint. Read the verses below and ask yourself "Where did He get His wisdom?"
Matt 13:53-54 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked.
I think we too must be very careful not to get caught up in what we THINK is wisdom. Jesus knew that all that he was and all that he did came from a source that had nothing to do with his earthly abilities. He looked within to a power that He was certain of, a power that came from God. Paul, in the following verses reminds us of what true wisdom is and where it comes from:
1 Cor 1:19-31 19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength. 26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things — and the things that are not — to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God — that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
I will be 57 years old on January 13th and I have followed many pathways on my journey, but I still think that Jesus Christ is the key and what I love about Him is that He leaves no one out. It may take us many lifetimes to realize true wisdom but when we do He (Jesus) will be right there with us cheering us on.
I think it is important for everyone to remember that their wisdom comes from deep within and most of us do not tap into it. Most of us are afraid and I believe that organized religion is the reason we fear ourselves and fear others wisdom. If it doesn’t come from the Church…it is wrong. Those days are over! The wisdom comes from the heart.
The people who have never stepped foot inside a church are the lucky ones. They have not been brain washed, but it also makes it difficult for them to understand those who are leaving the Church and why it is so hard.
I agree with Cliff that “Jesus Christ is the key.” The wisest people I have known have been lifelong followers of Jesus Christ.
There is a big part of me that wishes that i would have spent more of my time reading the bible, interpreting every verse, every word. There is a part of me that wonders what kind of a relationship I would have had with Cliff if I would have sat knee to knee night after night, and discussed the meaning of God, but i didn’t, and he danced his dance, and I danced mine, and we were still not just friends, not just buddies, but brothers bonded by a love only God knows.
I cant say that i have been a “life long follower of Jesus Christ”, as a matter of fact there has been a big part of my life that I wasn’t sure that the bible was much more the a more exciting and complicated version of Harry Potter book. What I am sure of is that I didn’t follow Jesus Christ, but what I know know is that he either followed me or that he was in that part of my heart that I choose not to listen to.
I really am enjoying this part of my journey. Its exciting to examine this mystical and almost magical God.
Have you ever thought about the ten commandments, the way God did that? He gave us ten laws to obey knowing are nature was not to obey them, but guess what else he dumped into that mix! He gave us a conscious, and all he ask was that we believe in him.
Know here is the mystical part, he knew we would sin, and he knew our conscious would not be effected by sinning. He knew it would only be affected by not sinning. Sounds crazy dont it.
Let me try and explain it the way I see it. If you had two bowls, one full of pure clean water(sin), and the other full of salt(conscious), and each time you sinned you would sip the water from the bowl and it would still be pure and sweet, but each time you thought of sinning and choose not to you would put a teaspoon of salt in your water and sip it and it would taste a bit more salty. Now your bowl of sin has a stronger conscious, and each time you are able to resit sinning your conscious is stronger.
There in lay the difference between a sociopath and someone who believes in God. A sociopath has never tasted salty water.
Gods laws were not given to us because he expected us to be able to live by them, but only to try to.
I love a good dream.
Love always
The wisest people I have known, have been the ones that have let Jesus Christ follow them. Just like footprints in the sand. Let God be love not law.
I love the beauty inside others minds. Doug I love what you said here, “He gave us ten laws to obey knowing are nature was not to obey them, but guess what else he dumped into that mix! He gave us a conscious, and all he ask was that we believe in him.”
One of the laws was to love thy neighbor as thyself. This is hard to do and I fail everday BUT I will still try every moment to LOVE unconditionally because my conscience tells me to. My conscience, which I believe is my spirit within, tells me that what I am doing feels wrong to ME and I don’t want to live with that kind of suffering. I want to do what feels good.
Interesting analogy, Doug. Especially re: the difference between a sociopath and someone who believes in God. I know some people who seem to be sociopaths and that describes very clearly what I’ve seen in them. They don’t know the water is salty because their tastebuds aren’t present. They have no conscience.
Hey doug, I have felt the same way several times since my dads death. Wishing I knew then what I know now and could have conversations with him but I didn’t know and don’t think I could know until his death so suppose those particular conversations just weren’t meant to be but I do still have them just not in the same way as if he were here in the flesh.
I am really enjoying some of the stuff I’ve been reading lately. As a matter of fact I think the apostle Paul may be my hero right know. I was reading were he thinks women should be silent , not speak, be submissive and subservient. Now to me that pretty much says it all! I think I may have to paint that in big red letters on my garage wall tonight, that way Cindy can read it every morning. The only reason I wont is because a trembling hand cant paint!
Do you think that I might be misinterpreting some of the things i just mentioned? That maybe i dont understand all that know? Could it be that the words Paul used were not translated accurate? When Paul said “speak” could he have simple meant for the women of the time to shhhh because the were all talking at the same time and maybe not as educated as the men of there time. Could it be that to translate Paul’s words from Hebrew to Greek then to English, we might have missed his true intention? What part of the bible should be taken literal? Every word?
I will be waiting with sweet anticipation to reply on this , because as soon as i have a definitive answer I’m gonna have a stern talk with Cindy!
PS Only Men, and woman who are not afraid to SPEAK should reply.
Love always, Doug
Funny stuff, Doug! We have just been studying these passages where my husband and I attend church. They are interpreted quite differently by differently groups of people, so it makes for an interesting discussion! Clearly the admonition for women to be silent in the church is not meant to be taken literally, as there are other passages in the Bible where it speaks of women prophesying. Must have been meant to resolve a particular issue in the specific church to which that letter was addressed. At least that’s my take on it. Sorry – I know that’s not what you wanted to hear. Kind of messes up your plan to drop the hammer on Cindy!
Tom, my husband, feels that we should stick to the old traditional way of looking at that scripture. He feels we women are getting all out of control, that men are losing their edge. Says the church was the last refuge where men could be men and keep the women in their place, etc……I think he’s mostly kidding.
Good point Connie. I kinda side with Tom, but am a little afraid to say it out loud, but my point was that our bible teachings are so subject to interpretation and translations that some of us could end up sleeping in the garage if we take them too literal.
Love alawys
The more important point, to me, is for ALL to know that you are already saved, so have fun while you try and understand every word of the Bible.
LOVE ALWAYS
Join us as we untangle the twists and turns of religion, and journey into the simple truth of an awesome, sweet, amazing… Grace!
SOME OF US REMEMBER
Love ya brother
Doug Wrote:
Gods laws were not given to us because he expected us to be able to live by them, but only to try to.
Geo here:
I do not believe He even wanted us to try Doug! He wanted us to know we are loved and trying is eating from the tree again as Adam did. We we NEVER built to know right from wrong but only to know God! When we start to look at right and wrong or trying verses not trying then we begin to judge ourselves and others. I no longer as Paul said see ANY MAN according to the flesh i.e WHAT HE OR SHE DOES OR DOES NOT DO. But only see Christ in ALL to ALL and Through ALL.
Peace
Geo
To geo, and Bruce.
A brothers love dosnt die with his last breath, a dedication doesn’t end till the detectors give it away.
I was jealous of you two, because i thought you held a more special place in Cliffs heart then i did. I know now that Cliff, (our brother) was no more dedicated to u then he was to the next soul he walked by.
I know that he believed in you two more then most to share the sweet simple grace of Gods love, and I’m sure you still are, with the dedication he had.
Some of us listen, some of us speak, some of us wait to hear.
So glad to hear from you brother.
love always
Good stuff guys! I agree Geo. I think our job is to love and to trust in God not in our ability to do the right thing or in others ability to do the right thing. Once I understand that any good I might actually do is really only because of God then it takes away judgement I might have for others who may not do what I think is the “right” thing. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks Lisa.
But for me it goes different than that.
YOU WROTE:
I think our job is to love and to trust in God not in our ability to do the right thing or in others ability to do the right thing.
Geo here:
I understand what you are saying but, I no longer have a job to trust God nor to love Him. That was the roll and job Jesus came to fulfill. Jesus came to fulfill that because mankind had no ability to do exactly what you said our job was i.e. to love and trust God. And once Jesus loved and trusted God The Father then the requirement to love and trust God was done away with! WOW! Did I say that? YES I DID! He, Jesus according to the writings of Paul was the AUTHOR & FINISHER of Faith. He authored love and trust in God and when He had fulfilled that requirement then it i.e. the requirement was done away with. I guess if today I was to love and trust it would be in what we (mankind) were given freely at The Cross. And what was that you may ask? To which I would reply, “A NEW HEART MADE OF FLESH AND NOT OF STONE” Just like the Prophets of The OT Prophesied.
about.
You see Lisa if I still have to try to do ANYTHING in order to be pleasing or loved and accepted more by God then I of ALL men am most miserable, because I will always be doubting that I have done it right or enough. Thanks for letting me share what I think.
Peace
Geo
Lisa
It is in the freedom to NOT love God WITHOUT repercussions that I begin to LOVE God!
I know that makes no sense to people that have been taught in the traditional church way. But it is the Power of God unto salvation of the soul i.e. the mind, the will & the emotions of humans here on this orb.
You see a person will NEVER really know what they believe or trust until the threat of punishment is removed. That is why I say most in the church are not really “saved” YES they are Redeemed and will as ALL of mankind will be forever with God in the here and hereafter but their souls i.e. mind, will & emotions are always in turmoil as to if they have done it right or enough. I know people who most christians would consider heathens that are more “saved” than the christian! NOT MORE REDEEMED but more saved.
Peace
Geo
Geo,
Thanks so much for your response and I do get what you are saying. I certainly believe I am powerless like you said and in and of my own power I am incapable of love and trust. I do get that. Its not about me and what I do but about Him and what He did. I also understand how being raised in the “traditional church” can confuse a person. I don’t always express myself well and I’m still learning and growing on this journey.
I guess where I’m at today is I agree the power is from God but as we tap into that power we will be loving people because God is love and to be like Him we will be of love and not fear.
Geo, i do believe i understand what you are saying. That once you understand that we are unconditionally Loved by God there is no need for me (personally) to anything, but i also realize we live in a world of biblical confusion, and million endure terrible guilt, fear, pain, and in some cases lost of life, due to the literal interpretations or misinterpretation of there bible.
You spent thirty years+ getting to were you are. Most people will not wake up tomorrow and suddenly accept that they are saved and need to do nothing more then enjoy the grace of God that was given to them freely. For those people i think it is so very important that they keep there mind open, ever questioning, willing to view thing differently then they ever have before, and maybe they will know that peace that you know.
I still think Paul when he said woman should not speak was just saying, SHHHHH!
love always
I love hearing you alls pov on this and I certianly agree in the open mind and willingness and questioning always really even if one thinks “they have arrived” I hope I’m learning till the day I die.
Oh, and my husband would say Paul was saying to the women, Shut the fuck up!
LOL! Lisa!
Perfect example of why Paul may have asked women to remain silent, Lisa.
Lisa, hahahaha! roflol! Please NEVER remain silent here on Bold Grace!
I love your openness and willingness to say it like it is! Your response made me laugh and brought a smile to my face!
Peace
Geo
Not sure why it’s so funny to see such vulgar language used to discuss Paul’s advice about women. It is possible to be open and “say it like it is” without being crude and vile. But, hey, that’s just me.
Connie, there have been times on this site that i have said many things that would been seen as crude and vulgar. There have been times when i have expressed hate for long lost family members. There have been times that my expressions would have been seen as mocking the bible Jesus and God. They were not necessary for me to express, i could have been silent, but i felt comfortable to say what i felt.
I love to listen to Lisa’s comments on this site, and i am so happy she feels that comfortable to say it the way she saw it.
To all: Thanks for all the interesting exchanges. This morning I gained some insight into my family dynamics that I needed to learn. For that I am eternally grateful. I love you all and wish you each the very best that life has to offer.
As always, Connie
I made that comment strickly for a laugh. I had no intentions of offending anyone but I have offended my sister whom I love dearly so I want to appologize to her and anyone else my language offended. Love you all.
Lisa
Lisa,
You don’t need to apologize to me. I thought it was hilarious (not crude or vile) and I took it as funny and it put a smile on my face. We have got to learn to take life less seriously. If I took every story of a book and read it literally and did what it told me to I probably would have shot myself by now. I would be a miserable human being.
I have so many stories of my Father. He was the perfect example of how to take life less seriously. While he knew his time was short and he was termially ill he layed on the couch and told people as they came in to give him $25 in order to see the dying man. I am pretty sure Paul would have laughed along with us all.
Found a great quote today.
Albert Einstein:
True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness.
It is such a sad thing to me, that as time passes our ability to clearly bring forward the faces of those that have gone before us fades. The strange part is that some remain more strongly imprinted then other.
One of face that i can always clearly see is that of my Uncle Jack. I know that i am not verbally articulate enough to describe his face to others as well as i would like but i will try.
He was a beautiful man with dark wavy hair, he had kinda puffy eyes when he would smile. He had a smile that would just make you feel so warm and comfortable, but the reason i think his face is so easy for me to recall is because of the way his eyes would squint a bit and twinkle almost sparkle when he smiled.
It is my belief that there is nothing that his children can do, say, think, or feel that would remove that loving smile from his face, because he knows we are perfect in the eyes of God.
I love you to Connie.
Love always Doug
Doug,
Thank you so much for that beautiful description of my daddy. You really should do some writing.
It is so amazing to me how the dynamics of life offer us so many opportunities to learn. If someone would have told me a year ago that i would be sharing any part of my feelings on this site or any other i would have laughed at them, and now that i have I’m sure there are some that would say “Doug you should have listened to your first instinct”.
I have told you how for the last forty years I’ve had one person after another put there hand on my should and beg me to let them show me how to be saved, and i have politely sent them on to the next soul , with a clear understanding that i am happy just the way i am.
It is not natural for me to share what i feel, my family are a few that i would share with, and not often with them.
There is a part of me that I’m more aware of then i ever was before. There is a knowledge that given the right opportunity tells me that i could sit on the curb with a skid row drunk and hold him as he pukes on my feet, I could buy him the bottle of wine he needs to feel better without judgement, and only share with him the knowledge that he is as precious as any man on earth, that i could walk the camps of Dufur and offer them only the opportunity to know that you are loved unconditionally.
I dont expect to be exposed to those opportunities, but I’m not dead yet, but i can share my feeling one person at a time.
Lisa, you did not offend me an anyway, and I love you to.
love always
I told you there is a part of me that wishes i would have sat knee to knee with Cliff, bible in our laps, and studied each verse each word of this plan God has for us.
You should know that this is about the time Cindy would be telling me to “SHUT THE FUCK UP”, if she could, so this will be my last comments tonight.
It is my brother and his enduring desire to share one simple message, that you are loved, that you are saved, that you need not do anything.
I can also tell you that if i would have sat knee to knee with Cliff, it would have been Cliff telling me, to “shut the fuck up”.
Love always
I LIED ONE MORE THOUGHT:
In The Air Tonight
——Phil Collins
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord
Well if you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand
I’ve seen your face before my friend, but I don’t know if you know who I am
Well I was there and I saw what you did, I saw it with my own two eyes
So you can wipe off that grin, I know where you’ve been
It’s all been a pack of lies
And I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
Well I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
Well I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord, oh Lord
Well I remember, I remember, don’t worry, how could I ever forget
It’s the first time, the last time we ever met
But I know the reason why you keep your silence UP, oh no you don’t fool me
Well the hurt doesn’t show, but the pain still grows
It’s no stranger to you and me
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
Well I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh lord
Well I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
I can feel it in the air tonight, oh lord, oh lord, oh lord
Well I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh lord, oh lord
I can feel it in the air tonight, oh lord, oh lord, oh lord, oh lord
And I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh lord, oh lord, oh lord
And I can feel it in the air tonight, Oh Lord…
I’ve been waiting for this moment, all my life, Oh Lord, Oh Lord
LOVE ALWAYS
You are so awesome Doug! I’ve had the experience you speak of, telling a drunk she’s loved and precious in Gods sight, when everyone else seemed to wish her dead. It is indeed a beautiful thing! I love it so much that you are sharing your heart here. You have no idea what you mean to me and how very grateful I am to you. I’ve always felt so loved and accepted and understood by the “Tooday Clan” I would love to be a part of your “secret day”. I think thats just about the coolest thing ever!
Love always…. Lisa
I lied again, with tears in my eyes. I tell you that it would be so easy for me to never again share my heart on this site. To abandon the place that allows all to share there deepest thought, but i wont because i have grown from the thoughts of people like you (Lisa) and you (Connie).
I am so very sorry that Connie doesn’t realize that she may be walking away from a place that she can truly grow from, and help others do the same.
Its hard for me to believe that Connie has nothing more to say to me, and to others, but even harder for me to think she has nothing more to learn from us.
The family dynamics that you gained insight into this morning Connie are worldly, you should look beyond them.
LOVE ALAWYS